Akmal Shaikh......the bringer of world peace....or is he?

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

Originally Posted By: Slippery Jim

Few nations live up to their ideals (I dunno, maybe Andorra or Lichtenstein?), but then again few measure themselves against ideals as high as those the U.S. demands of itself (and, admittedly, more often than not fails to reach).

I think there in lies the problem.
The U.S. is NOT a measuring stick for the rest of the world to measure up to.
The automatic assumption by many Americans that their morals, values and ideals should automatically transfer to the rest of the world is naive at best.

Well perhaps you could dumb it down a little for me, because I swore you were talking about the high level of American ideals and other countries measuring themselves against that level.

[Jynxx 4]

I am reading this with great interest and nodding my head and shaking it ..

It's a great read.

Mitch, I have to say that in my experience with living in Australia, A lot of Aussies don't like Americans. You might find this weird (I did when I first went to OZ in '76) since the two countries are allies, have security obligations, etc but you will find that Aussie women likes Americans far more than men do since WW2 R&R days, maybe hence lies the roots to this. Also Australia never had centre stage in the world's affairs, relatively unknown until recently (I think winning the America's cup was a huge deal to Aussies) failed to emerge as a power broker in international politics ... say no more.

Having visited and lived in different parts of the States, I share Mitch's opinion and optimism about that country. The only thing I object to is firearms carry.

I also agree a lot with JA despite I had in the past (being Japanese blood) experienced racially motivated treatment so I differ there (JA, others and I had difference in opinions about this - I find OZ to be highly anglo centric, insular albeit it's a continent, people tend to not like migrants and asians although supposedly it's multicultural and everyone is a migrant. There is a tendency that people don't like foreigners everywhere in the world to be fair, by the way. People appreciates being mediocre, so much of Australia's brains have drained to USA.

So, while I read in everyone that they are patriotic in their own way, and have different preferences for political systems which has underlying flaws, I think we are not that all different. Every individual, a nation has extreme elements when compared to others. We do believe in values and we judge others' and extend influence - we all like to initiate change. Look at Islam, Christianity, USA, Australia, Japan, any individual. Sometimes stubbornly refusing to accept other values. The scary bit is in some countries you can get killed for it, or can't escape.

 

[hellyer 216]

Jynxx, your head is in a special place.

[Go Native 70]

Well I'm not patriotic one little bit. Was more than happy to leave Australia and will be very happy to never have to go back there.

 

The US is a funny place though, it's almost like a whole lot of different countries in one. The Pacific NW is like a whole other world compared to the deep South. Texas may as well be on another planet compared to New Hampshire. Issues that affect one part of the country are unknown in other parts. It is an amazing place no doubt and can be inspirational as well as outright scary.

We do all love to hate it but the world would be a lesser place without it. And I agree with an earlier comment, I definitely prefer the US over China if we have to have a dominant superpower in this world.

[Mantas 3]

MitchPee- I find your post honest and insightful. Your personal story about your father doing well from humble beginnings is a good example of the American dream.

The fact is though, that dream can be realized in just about any western democratic society and I don't think many Americans understand that. (I've spent plenty of time in the U.S. BTW)

In fact, with basically no social welfare payment system or free public health, I'd suggest that dream is harder to achieve in the U.S. than lots of other places.

 

I certainly wouldn't say America was "a bad example of what to look up to" it's just not on the top of my list.

[mitchpee 10]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Well I'm not patriotic one little bit. Was more than happy to leave Australia and will be very happy to never have to go back there.

The US is a funny place though, it's almost like a whole lot of different countries in one. The Pacific NW is like a whole other world compared to the deep South. Texas may as well be on another planet compared to New Hampshire. Issues that affect one part of the country are unknown in other parts. It is an amazing place no doubt and can be inspirational as well as outright scary.
We do all love to hate it but the world would be a lesser place without it. And I agree with an earlier comment, I definitely prefer the US over China if we have to have a dominant superpower in this world.

I couldn't agree more, that's what federalism does though. Embodies a lot of states and leaves room for events like the Civil War. I have lived in 3 different states. Arguably I have lived in the most far right wing state (Utah) and the most far left wing state (Vermont). So I have definitely seen a good array of different political backgrounds.

Jynxx, the firearm situation does vary by states. However it is scary, very scary I agree. People can carry concealed weapons here in UT and are allowed to do so on a college campus, bars, anywhere. I find that disturbing. I don't think a 4 hour class determines your responsibility to be able to carry a firearm in public.

Mantas, I definitely agree it can happen anywhere. I think the land of opportunity sticks with us as a nickname only because of the vast capabilities of production here when the US was first founded. Plenty of new natural resources and such and optimistic environments for opening businesses. What I have found is that the general optimism for opening businesses is much greater here than say in Russia or even Britain. I think that has a lot to do with why the US gets this sort of entitlement of the land of opportunity. As they say, pessimists are not to be entrepreneurs. Not to say everywhere in the world is like this, I think there is far more optimism in China than the US right now, but it still sticks to my point.

[Go Native 70]

The US is definitely a land of great opportunities and it encourages wealth creation in many ways. The problem though is it has little protection for those who can't or don't make a go of it and a lot of the wealth creation relies on cheap labour. The US has some of the lowest minimum wages for any developed nation. This has set up great divisions between rich and poor which throughout history has always caused problems in societies.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: Go Native

Well I'm not patriotic one little bit. Was more than happy to leave Australia and will be very happy to never have to go back there.

What if Japan boots you out?

We've been here before GN. We have differing views on what being patriotic is all about. To me patriotism is more about loyalty than anything else, I don't really even celebrate Australia day, but I'm proud of where I come from. Your earlier post about nations and modern day borders is spot on. Nothing new there though. Turn the clock back 5000 years and replace the word 'nation' with the word 'tribe' and it's exactly the same. These days when we enter another 'tribes' territory we take visas and passports instead of clubs and spears. Being a member of a tribe means you work for the common good of the tribe and the tribe looks out for you. Loyalty.
People have always tried to better themselves by leaving a poor tribe and joining a more prosperous tribe. People in the more prosperous tribe resent the new-comers because they feel that they haven't contributed to the tribes prosperity in the first place.
People that join a tribe and enjoy the prosperity of the tribe but don't show any loyalty to it are resented as well. They take and don't give.
People who leave a tribe and pretend to be some kind of 'citizen of the universe', with no loyalties to any tribe are kidding themselves IMO. A nice idea but not very realistic this day and age.

This is a good thread.
Not sure what it has to do with a dude caught smuggling drugs.

[Go Native 70]

Threads evolve, you can start a new one everytime a new subject is discussed or, as I prefer, just let them flow.

 

If I have to feel part of a tribe then it's the 'I Love Powder' tribe. The little community up here in Niseko has plenty of enthusiastic members of that tribe so I'm pretty happy here.

I wouldn't consider moving from Aus to Japan a move from poorer to richer though. The Aus economy is doing much better than here. Certainly a hell of a lot richer in terms of powder though!

I have no need to feel part of the Aussie tribe, it never made me overly happy and never will.

[Mantas 3]

I just hope that the 'I love powder tribe' will look out for you if you have bad fortune and can't feed your family any more.

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

I just hope that the 'I love powder tribe' will look out for you if you have bad fortune and can't feed your family any more.

Well thankfully I'm not exactly struggling for a quid and the tiny thing they call a salary here is only my play money. Feeding the family is never going to be a problem

Just hanging out to get my permanent residency so I don't have to keep working to get a damned visa to keep living here!!