Karnidge 2 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I was speaking to a Japanese colleague friend last week and for some reason we got on to talking about people being caught for driving with some alcohol in the system. In Japan here it's a total "no alcohol while driving" policy. 2 interesting things: She is a teacher. She said that if she was caught "drunk driving" (which includes, say, a sip of wine), she would be fined of course but she would also have to tell her public service employer and she would get a cut in salary for - she thinks - 1 month. That to me just seems ludicrous. The other thing was - what happens if you went to a party the night before and you were driving to work the next day thinking you were ok but actually had a bit still left in the blood. Are they at all tolerant of that or is it Mr Strict there as well? Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 WOW! Goodness me! I did not realise there was a ZERO alcohol limit for driving in Japan. As you say very hard to manage after a party!! Although I have had the situation where I had two glasses of champagne over two hours, as well as a couple of glasses of sparkling water, and after being pulled over for a random breath test I blew negative. No sign of alcohol! Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 It's only been zero for a while a think. Think it was due to some (ex)politician causing an accident then it was introduced. I for one think the salary cut is a good idea - especially in position of responibility as teaching. You are supposed to be a role model to the public. Think herself lucky - if she was caught taking illegal drugs, then she wouldn't have a job. Two glasses of champagne, would equate to roughly 2 units of alcohol. Which in turn would take roughly two hours for your liver to break down, thus giving you a negative reading on the breathalyser. Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I for one think it is an absurd idea. WTF has it got to do with the persons job? And how actually do they find out anyway in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites
indosnm 0 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Originally Posted By: grungy-gonads I for one think it is an absurd idea. WTF has it got to do with the persons job? And how actually do they find out anyway in the first place? Makes people accountable. Especially in "role model" positions. I agree that Japans zero limit is crazy ( It has been that way for donkeys as I remember Rob) but people shouldn't drink n drive.. end of story. Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Quote: people shouldn't drink n drive I agree. Should people in other jobs not be accountable as well? Isn't being fined for the crime enough? Why should people who happen to work for the government be punished more for the same thing that people who work for a company? I presume you extend the same line of thinking to every aspect of public worker vs company worker? Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: grungy-gonads Quote: people shouldn't drink n drive I agree. Should people in other jobs not be accountable as well? Isn't being fined for the crime enough? Why should people who happen to work for the government be punished more for the same thing that people who work for a company? I presume you extend the same line of thinking to every aspect of public worker vs company worker? Well if people can be drug tested at any time in their job, and lose it if under the influence or have recently taken illegal drugs - why should alcohol be any different, except that it is socially tolerated in comparison? Also, if the company worker is caught for drink driving, thought some companies in Japan would find out anyway, due to disclosure of criminal records when you apply for jobs? And in 2003, the latest year I could find, the blood alcohol limit was 0.03%. The revised (2001) law in Japan has a limit of 0.15 mg alcohol / 1 liter expelled breath which equates to the above. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Quote: Well if people can be drug tested at any time in their job, and lose it if under the influence or have recently taken illegal drugs - why should alcohol be any different, except that it is socially tolerated in comparison? I believe the point is.... why should teachers be treated differently to people working for companies in this instance? ..... rather than anything alcohol/drugs. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I don't think so - I merely emphasized the point that they are in a position of responsibilty. Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Isn't everyone doing a job? I don't see how someone working as a teacher or town office worker should be punished more than someone working for a bank for the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 To put it simply, different jobs have different levels of responsibilty, qualifications, and people needed. If a banker was caught drink driving, maybe it wouldn't be so enforced. But as in my previous example, the Japanese politician that was caught was arrested, charged. Now this case is more than likely to due to public opinion, perhaps responsibility from above. In return, if you think all jobs should be treated equally, do you think a brain surgeon who goes to work after drink driving, should be "punished" the same as say, a shelf sacker who goes to work after drink driving, if both are still suffering the effects? Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I think that being drunk and working should be punishable in any profession - without alcohol we have had a number of coolroom panels or doors removed or destroyed by n00bs who forgot to allow for or put down the forks on the forklift....add in alcohol and you are talking LETHAL! However we are not talking about being drunk here.....are we? We are talking about having A drink... Admittedly it would be a rare day that I would have even one drink and go to work (I cant think of ever) - but there would certainly have been times that I partied the day/night before and was decidedly hungover at work ... again NOT OFTEN, but it certainly has happenned. And to get there we drive. I am not always in the position to stay home and not drive for a good 24 hours after drinking to ensure there is no trace of alcohol in my system. perhaps in a country with such a fabulous public transport infrastructure you are able to - but not here. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Get someone to drive your - car pool it. sorry but there is simply no excuse for drink driving; in any country, in any situation. if you know you drank too much the night before, then either phone a friend to see if they can drive you to work; get a family member to drive you to work, or if not possible, to the closest train station or bus stop or in the worst case, get a taxi to work. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 When you say drink driving do you mean not even one or two? I know from experience in Aus that I can easily have 3 or 4 drinks in the first hour and 1-2 each hour thereafter without going over the 0.05% limit there (after being tested on many occasions following a night out drinking). And I know I can drive safely near that limit. The near zero limit here in Japan is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned. I do drink and drive here all the time. Am I too impaired to drive safely? No I'm not. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 zero - no drinks - not even one. It isn't simply worth the risk. All it takes is one accident whilst "under the influence" - doesn't matter how many. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Thing is Rob I am an extremely good driver, never had an accident in over 20 years of driving. And I have done a lot of driving, averaging 30-40 thousand km's each year in Aus and over 20k a year here. A reasonable percentage of those km's would have been driven after having a few drinks. You see even under the infuence of alcohol my driving ability probably only decreases down to pretty damned amazing. Whether or not it's worth the risk? Well if I was only as good a driver as most of the locals around here then certainly not. But with my incredible skills behind the wheel taken into account I reckon it's worth it Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 In Japan there are two levels of drink driving. However, the penalties for the lower one have been made so severe that they might as well be thought of as the same. I think you'd get away with a "sip of wine", but the choice to risk it is yours. With the higher level, they'll stop you driving for three years and wipe out your licence. All the fines have been upped after some drunk **** pushed a car full of kids into Hakata Bay. Its a really tragic story. With a teacher etc., drink driving endangers other people. In that sense, its worse than them taking drugs in their own home which endangers no-one. With drink driving in Japan, the problem is that there is no or very patchy enforcement and massive scapegoating of those caught. I guess a lot of people will still drink and drive because the chance of getting caught is so slim. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I really am amazed. I am what would be considered a light and social drinker by my friends and family. I often go weeks and weeks without anything at all. And other than a couple of stupid evenings when I was barely out of my teens and really really DUMB I have never driven when I have thought I may have been over the legal limit to drive (in Australia) which used to be 0.08 and is now 0.05. And there have been a number of times when I have chosen NOT to drive because I have felt effected by alcohol despite knowing I couldnt be over the limit (usually because I was also tired). In my head a 'drink driver' is someone who gets plastered and then jumps behind the wheel of a car and recklessly endangers the community. And they should indeed be punished. Having A drink or even TWO drinks, and driving home is just not in the same ball park (at least not for me with my frame of reference) - I suppose that is why I am astounded that the laws are ZERO blood alcohol in Japan. Heck - a good healthy serving of my Mum's trifle would see you lose your licence in Japan!!! Link to post Share on other sites
pie-eater 207 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Just don't eat Mum's trifle if you are a teacher. That would be totally irresponsible. (OK for other people though). Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 simply alcohol slows your reaction time down - there has been numerous studies into it. all it takes is one pint (pretty much a standard serving in the uk) and your reaction time has slowed down. a drink driver is exactly just that - someone who drinks and drive - doesn't have to be lots, could be 1 could be 10 drinks. Driving a car is a privilege and if choose not to obey the rules of the road, then you deserve what you get coming to you. This, if you hadn't had guessed by now, is something that I feel very passionately about. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of accidents that could be avoided every week, if people just stopped and though about the consequences. Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Mr Wiggles With a teacher etc., drink driving endangers other people Lost me there..... with a postman (insert other job), it doesn't? Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: RobBright simply alcohol slows your reaction time down - there has been numerous studies into it. all it takes is one pint (pretty much a standard serving in the uk) and your reaction time has slowed down. a drink driver is exactly just that - someone who drinks and drive - doesn't have to be lots, could be 1 could be 10 drinks. Driving a car is a privilege and if choose not to obey the rules of the road, then you deserve what you get coming to you. This, if you hadn't had guessed by now, is something that I feel very passionately about. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of accidents that could be avoided every week, if people just stopped and though about the consequences. I get that Rob. But you see 'a drink driver' is not the same world over dependent on the laws of the country which establish cultural norms. I AM NOT a 'drink driver' in Australia if I have a glass of wine with my meal at the local resturant and then drive my family home, neither would I be as effected by the booze as I am by the bickering of my kids in the backseat... We were clearly too lenient in years gone by as our 'limit' has been decreased due to research on reaction times. But the majority of people can drive without impairment if they follow the guidelines of standard drinks per hour. I do find it fascinating though that the Japanese laws are tougher. Things would have to change here to make a zero tolerence workable - thats for sure. I mean...heck...taxi's! Where are they? I got out of bed to play taxi driver for my Hubby and his mates on Saturday night - no taxi's anywhere! And a foul night it was. I got down to 30kms an hour it was raining so hard. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: RobBright simply alcohol slows your reaction time down - there has been numerous studies into it. all it takes is one pint (pretty much a standard serving in the uk) and your reaction time has slowed down. a drink driver is exactly just that - someone who drinks and drive - doesn't have to be lots, could be 1 could be 10 drinks. Driving a car is a privilege and if choose not to obey the rules of the road, then you deserve what you get coming to you. This, if you hadn't had guessed by now, is something that I feel very passionately about. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of accidents that could be avoided every week, if people just stopped and though about the consequences. Driving a car is a privilege??? WTF? You poms must think very differently to us Aussies about driving for you to make that statement. Try telling an Aussie he is privileged to be allowed to buy a car and drive it! Rob in most other countries on the planet they have a reasonable alcohol limit that they believe people can still drive safely. In Aus it's 0.05, in many parts of the US it's 0.08. Just because Japan has decided to do the extreme thing and make 0.0 does not mean people are irresponsible if they have a couple of beers before driving home. It just means they are breaking the law here. Like how many people here sit on the 50 or 60km/hr speed limits on open country roads? Not many at all, most sit on 70-80km/hr (at least they do up this way). Are they being irresponsible as well? I mean by the laws of this land they are speeding but really 70-80 on a good country road is hardly being irresponsible is it? Same with having a drink or two before driving, against the law here yes but hardly all that irresponsible. I'm tipping you grew up in London or another big UK city and probably didn't even get your license until you were quite old if you actually have it at all? I've met a few UK people over here in Japan who are well into their 20's or early 30's and still haven't got a car license!! Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I grew up outside of London. Got my license at 16 at my first available opportunity, because my friends and girlfriends tended to live out in the sticks. If you going to make assumptions GN, please make sure you at least know the person before you make them. OK GN & MB - wait till someone you know dies because the driver of that car, a car that crashed into theirs, or knocked them over, has had a drink or two in them. I think in all countries, the legal limit should be 0.00% not just in Japan Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Originally Posted By: Go Native Originally Posted By: RobBright simply alcohol slows your reaction time down - there has been numerous studies into it. all it takes is one pint (pretty much a standard serving in the uk) and your reaction time has slowed down. a drink driver is exactly just that - someone who drinks and drive - doesn't have to be lots, could be 1 could be 10 drinks. Driving a car is a privilege and if choose not to obey the rules of the road, then you deserve what you get coming to you. This, if you hadn't had guessed by now, is something that I feel very passionately about. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of accidents that could be avoided every week, if people just stopped and though about the consequences. Driving a car is a privilege??? WTF? You poms must think very differently to us Aussies about driving for you to make that statement. Try telling an Aussie he is privileged to be allowed to buy a car and drive it! Rob in most other countries on the planet they have a reasonable alcohol limit that they believe people can still drive safely. In Aus it's 0.05, in many parts of the US it's 0.08. Just because Japan has decided to do the extreme thing and make 0.0 does not mean people are irresponsible if they have a couple of beers before driving home. It just means they are breaking the law here. Like how many people here sit on the 50 or 60km/hr speed limits on open country roads? Not many at all, most sit on 70-80km/hr (at least they do up this way). Are they being irresponsible as well? I mean by the laws of this land they are speeding but really 70-80 on a good country road is hardly being irresponsible is it? Same with having a drink or two before driving, against the law here yes but hardly all that irresponsible. I'm tipping you grew up in London or another big UK city and probably didn't even get your license until you were quite old if you actually have it at all? I've met a few UK people over here in Japan who are well into their 20's or early 30's and still haven't got a car license!! thats me......whats wrong with that? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts