rach 1 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 An interesting article in the Guardian today, thought I'd share. "Skiers are accused of destroying the very wilderness they love. We asked two experts for their views on the sport's impact, and got two very different responses." No Mountain Wilderness, a French conservation group that described skiing as "the cancer of the Alps", says that 4,000 cubic metres of water are needed to cover one hectare of piste for a season – whereas a hectare of corn needs only 1,700. Across the Alps, it is estimated that artificial snow consumes the same amount of water each year as 1.5 million people. Incredibly, in some regions, tap water is used, but elsewhere river water is extracted from the valleys below and pumped back up the mountain. Yes Many people take the view that the downhill ski industry ruins the environment, consumes vast amounts of energy and cannot possibly be in harmony with the principles of responsible or sustainable tourism. However, it has been the saviour of many mountain communities and traditions, halting the depopulation and poverty that occurred at the end of the 19th century. Overally, seems to me the yes hardly stands up to the no in that lot does it. Guardian Interesting read. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Well I can't speak for other ski communities but I know that the snow making at Thredbo is very environmentally aware. They use the water from Lake Jindabyne that as it melts and flows back to Lake Jindabyne creates the hydroelectric power for not only the ski resorts but the local towns and settlements. As people who LOVE the natural environment that we play in we are more likely to look after it. I know that I have picked up bottles nd wrappers discarded by others while I was on the slopes and depositted them in a bin...simply because I couldn't bear anyone rubbishing up my playzone. I suppose some resort and punters will continue to foul thier own nest, but I think WE are more likley than some other demographics to make changes to look after our playgrounds... MHO Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 The only people who are truly green are those who are self-sustained and grow their own food/fruits/veggies, dont drive a car, and dont do any sports which require motorized vehicles, lifts, anything that uses electricity and dont enter nature. So, basically we are all hypocrites, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Greenroome 0 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 I agree with the apparent majority mindset of SJ'ers (as expressed on other enviro-threads here) that you should do what you can for the environment but still enjoy yourself. I actively avoid ski hills that make fake snow and have nighta, but I'm not prepared to miss out on the sport I love just because they use power for the lifts. I'm planning on spending a fair chunk of time this season sliding at Kamui Ski Links for just that reason. I've also got some un-used carbon credits that I bought earlier this year still under my belt. Link to post Share on other sites
Greenroome 0 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 I should add that I would never think badly of anyone who did go for fake snow or the nighta, because they might be doing some other green thing in their life that I'm not. It's all about balance. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Most Oz resorts that use made snow (don't get the reference to "fake" snow - it is all real, just some is natural and some man-made) use water from local dams or rivers. The melt goes straight back into the storages it came from, so no problem! As for the electricity etc, If I stayed home, I'd be using electricity to live, fuel to get to/from work, etc etc. Transfer of the place of use, is all. (OK might use a bit more for the lifts, but, Hey, I got a right to enjoy myself, don't I?) Link to post Share on other sites
Nisoko 6 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 What are kamui doing Greenroome? Link to post Share on other sites
Greenroome 0 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 They don't have man-made snow or nighta, and they don't groom the whole hill apparently. I haven't been there but plenty of people I've spoken to say it's their favourite hill in Hokkaido. Plus a day pass is only 2800 yen and they encourage you to hit the trees. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Absolutely! "See it, ski it!" is the motto there. Fab place to have a slide. Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Is it possible to be green and ski? Ocean 11 didn't think so, and stopped skiing. I am not sure myself... I think that in some ways, resort riding is a much better alternative to everyone just heading willy-nilly into the mountains, and tromping around like a bunch of elephants, leaving their litter everywhere. At least with resort riding, it can keep the damage localized, and handle a large amount of people reasonable well. It also provided wealthy people with an alternative activity to flying overseas to some sensitive tropical area, or wasting fuel flying. However, these resorts still have a responsibility (as do all people who rely on nature for sports or otherwise) to keep from destroying too much of it. I am maybe a little morre sensitive than most about it, so forgive me if i seem extreme. I have never known a winter without skiing or snowboarding, and it provides me with income in the winter. I depend on it for more than just pleasure, it is my life. There are still lots of areas that resorts can improve. Lodges can be made better to use less energy, and especially as most places are far away from city center, have better transportation alternatives to get to them! We don't need to drive there in a gazillion different SUVs that we keep idling in the parking lot as put on our boots. Maybe have parking lots at the base of the mountain and then a decent shuttle service. That would have other benefits beside environmental ones anyways. the majority of people that ski and snowboard are rather privilaged, and also most likely consume the most resources of anyone on the planet. Anyone that is concerned about 'green skiing' can find plenty of things to 'green' their own lifestyles, before looking to others to do it for them. Being green in one area is not a licsence to pollute in another. As for balance... we are definately no where near balance with nature. We have a long way to go before we can make such a claim. Link to post Share on other sites
2pints-mate 0 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 So you ok with the riding the snow thing yourself then Oyuki? Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 For the moment yeah, i still ride. I am absolutely in love with snowboarding. But i do have limits on what i am wiling to sacrifice to feed my habit. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 2pints and me have a different take, I guess. We both have to travel to get to a decent ski field. In my case, I have the option of driving for 10 hours (to get to an overpriced resort, with gouging landlords and a lift ticket that is in the order of AUD95 a day!) and 10 hours home again! OR I can fly to Japan, have a trip around the country, see a few places I've never seen before, then ski a couple of weeks and go back home to save up for next year! Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Originally Posted By: Creek Boy The only people who are truly green are those who are self-sustained and grow their own food/fruits/veggies, dont drive a car, and dont do any sports which require motorized vehicles, lifts, anything that uses electricity and dont enter nature. So, basically we are all hypocrites, right? The "truly green" one is a straw man argument. Lots of aspects of nature are resiliant, so we can do a lot of the things we do without affecting the big picture, even on a cumulative basis. However, we're on a finite planet and there are limits to resources and limits how fast nature can recover when harmed. On the other side, there are infinite different levels of benefit that we get from doing things that might harm the Earth in the short and/or long term. On a moral basis, I think it is plain wrong to equate all behavior regardless of cost/benefit or to set up some straw man standard that noone can achieve. Extremely harmful activity that benefits very few, e.g. that factory at Minamata, the ivory trade, etc. is not the same as some flicking on a light switch or going for a walk in the woods. At least not in my book of morals anyway. With acid rain and the ozone hole, people who didn't benefit personally took action with some economic cost to prevent further harm. Things can be done. The media always make it sound impossible to do anything, but that's because they've got a massive vested interest in the way things are. The truth is that we can achieve great things. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Originally Posted By: Mr Wiggles Things can be done. The media always make it sound impossible to do anything, but that's because they've got a massive vested interest in the way things are. The truth is that we can achieve great things. Yes we can. there are plenty of opportunities out there to offset your carbon emissions by investing in some programs designed to recapture carbon by way of tree planting etc..You can just about 'green up' any activity you do on this planet O.K. you can argue just how effective these programs are but it's a start. It cost money though, so if you really feel strongly enough about it, dig your hand into your pocket and put your money where your mouth is. Remember we have to REDUCE our carbon foot print not ELIMINATE it. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Originally Posted By: JA 2pints and me have a different take, I guess. We both have to travel to get to a decent ski field. In my case, I have the option of driving for 10 hours (to get to an overpriced resort, with gouging landlords and a lift ticket that is in the order of AUD95 a day!) and 10 hours home again! OR I can fly to Japan, have a trip around the country, see a few places I've never seen before, then ski a couple of weeks and go back home to save up for next year! Yes yes yes! I have not seen the world yet, but have become addicted to snow (and have NONE locally) so the dilemma is answered by taking my vacations in different parts of the world and testing out the snow at all of them! Do I fly - yes. Do I heat the rooms - yes. Perhaps these behaviours will have to change at some stage, but I am trying awfully hard to green up other area's of my life. If I can get solar electric panels on my roof before I go I will be generating green power for the neighbourhood while I am away... And there are MASSES of tree's and plants sucking up my CO2 in my yard - and I mean masses! As I said before...I think this demographic is better positioned than most to take up the green challenge - will we stop enjoying life to ensure no impact - NO, but we can sure as heck take steps to reduce that footprint! Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 We will be putting a grid connected array on our cottage here too. The beauty of that is that the power we do not use while in Japan will be at the height of summer, so most efficient (and longest generation time) and NO use! I have an olive grove of 400+ trees, planted in 1996-2003. They are sequestering carbon as we speak, and I cannot get credits for them yet! (The Oz legislation has no way of recognising the rural sector's contribution to carbon sequestration). They are a longterm proposition! Link to post Share on other sites
Tubby Beaver 209 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 I guess　you are all nicer people than me. I'm selfish I guess but I do very little in "offsetting", there is no way I'm gonna be giving up anything that I like to do, if that means burning a whole lot of fuel to get there so be it, I'm comfortable with my decisions Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 1 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Can you be a human and be green? Possible but a challenging proposition for a regular person like myself. I try to balance inputs and outputs but basically I am drain on the resources and ecological well-being of the planet. It's something I'd like to work towards changing and I guess the ungreeness of snowboarding can be compensated for by harm minimisation in other areas. Having just eaten sausages for dinner, I'm not doing very well for today. I do however live in a small house and catch the train to work so it aint all bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Originally Posted By: Tubby Beaver I guess　you are all nicer people than me. I'm selfish I guess but I do very little in "offsetting", there is no way I'm gonna be giving up anything that I like to do, if that means burning a whole lot of fuel to get there so be it, I'm comfortable with my decisions I respect your honesty TB and I'm not painting myself as some kind of 'green hero' (I'm not) but I suggest you do a bit more research on the impact of our choices. Basically it not an issue of being 'green' or not being 'green' anymore. Its an issue of weather you care about our kids future of not. Link to post Share on other sites
Curt 1 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Thats honesty for you. Probably a lot of people think exactly the same. I do my bit, but not as much as I possibly could. I admire the people who do and must strive to get there myself. It's difficult volunteering to go out of your comfort zone though. Link to post Share on other sites
Greenroome 0 Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Originally Posted By: Mantas Basically it not an issue of being 'green' or not being 'green' anymore. Its an issue of weather you care about our kids future of not. Hear hear! Link to post Share on other sites
Amos in Utsunomia 0 Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 BTW, are resorts putting up lift ticket prices this season due to oil prices etc? Link to post Share on other sites
Deltaone1 0 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Thought this might have related to a different type of green Link to post Share on other sites
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