soubriquet 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I'm very sorry skimum about your late Friday night problem 235 section tyres are ideal for wideboys. Chrome wheels and dangling dice. Do you like to cruise with the stereo up and the windows down? You asked a valid question, and several serious people have taken the trouble to try to help you out. The bottom line is you have a car which is totally unsuited for snow. Too wide for snow tyres, and too low for chains. This is your problem, not mine. My car works very well in Tohoku snow. I guess yours looks cool cruising downtown Tokyo Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Jaguar, Volvo, Ford. They all come out of the same factory Link to post Share on other sites
2pints-mate 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: soubriquet Easy. Stop you and look. Snow tyres are obvious. soubs, just how obvious? I suppose I want to see a pic of a snow tyre Don't chains damage the road or something? Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Here's a Swedish comparison between Subaru and Volvo. For fashion victims, the Subaru is green and the Volvo white. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I'll bet you're happy you've spent the extra money on a Ford. Sorry, Volvo. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: 2pints,mate Originally Posted By: soubriquet Easy. Stop you and look. Snow tyres are obvious. soubs, just how obvious? I suppose I want to see a pic of a snow tyre Don't chains damage the road or something? I have a beaut photo which I need to host (doesn't belong on SJF). Give me ten minutes. Link to post Share on other sites
2pints-mate 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Will do Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 This is a snow tyre. What can be seen is a block tread pattern. What we can't see is the rubber compound. The compound is a very soft rubber with silicon crystal inclusions. The unseen inclusions give grip on ice. Link to post Share on other sites
2pints-mate 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Thanks for that. I have just decided that tyres are quite interesting and want to understand those patterns a bit more, so will do some research. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 The blocks grip on snow, and the sipes (microcuts) deal with wet. The rubber compound deals with ice. Link to post Share on other sites
Skimum 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 Ah Soubs cmon don't get mad! I was just get a little frustrated with my sudden dilemma. In our house the car is usually the domain of the husband. Oddly in this instance he bailed on me and I am left dealing with tyres. Seriously!!! 235 65 17 these are all just numbers to me - I am going to admit female ignorance on this (and only this!!!). I would have thought that an AWD volvo would do snow???? And as you asked - I do look VERY cool cruising downtown Tokyo! Thank you all for your help - we are now going to attempt to take all our luggage on the shink. (yeh yeh stop laughing) Link to post Share on other sites
Skimum 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 hmm that video is a bit telling...... Link to post Share on other sites
Kraut_in_HongKong 0 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Originally Posted By: Skimum I'm coming up tomorrow morning and am getting mixed messages about whether we need chains. We have a Volvo 4WD (yes I am a true Skimum) - but we can't seem to get chains to fit due to low clearance. What you mean "low clearance"? I once had a Volvo XC70 as a rental in Germany and to fit chains was no problem. For winter tyres, there must be plenty of shops around that sell them. You don't need any specific brand. Just all 4 should be the same. And if you never used chains, try them at least once on a clear road, so you know how it works. Next time you need them could be high snow or night time. @soubriquet Interesting video. That was about the Volvo I had as rental once. It's looks good, but is really not that off road suitable. Automatic is always a disadvantange in winter, and no differential lock! Mean, I can't give power to all 4 wheels, just 2. And I did got stuck in deep snow and had to be pulled out by a truck. No surprise that the Subaru is better - even if tested by swedes. Link to post Share on other sites
sanjo 2 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Have we been loved and left? Interesting points though. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I don't know about "loved" but most likely "left"! Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 "Low clearance" means the gap between the tyre and bodywork, not the car and the ground. Some cars, especially with super-wide tyres, simply can't accommodate chains without flogging the body. That XC70 clearly has an open centre differential. You can see that only one wheel is driven, once it starts to spin. Hopeless. The Legacy has a limited slip centre diff, at least. Some have a rear LSD too, giving 3WD as minimum. Skimum. Sorry to be crusty with you Link to post Share on other sites
farquah 0 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 There was always the option of hiring a car in Tokyo. Not expensive and would have had tyres that do the job and easily done at the last minute. Just a thought for next time anyone in that situation. Link to post Share on other sites
gerard 6 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hey, um... dumb question, but in Canada I always remember having 'all-season' tires which we never changed. The didn't quite have the block pattern that Soub's snow tires had but they seemed good enough on snow. Is that not something that exists in Japan? Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I'm not sure if they exist or not in Japan. I've never seen all season tyres here, but I haven't been looking. All tyre designs and "rubber" formulations involve a number of compromises. Wet vs dry grip, wear rates, noise vibration and harshness etc. "Snow tyres" are specifically formulated to remain supple and operate effectively at low temperatures, and they have crystalline silicon inclusions which penetrate and grip on slick ice. All-season tyres lack these features, and therefore are less effective in winter conditions. Similarly, all-season tyres are noisier, wear faster and grip less than summer tyres on dry roads. The physics of tyres is amazingly complex, and still not fully understood even by the manufacturers. By that, I mean that there are no numerical models which fully describe and predict tyre behaviour. It's still a black art (ho ho) where progress is made by experimentation and experience. Consider this. Trundling along the expressway at 130kph, the patch of tyre in contact with the road is stationary. (If it weren't stationary, it would be sliding on the road - a skid.) Therefore, that patch must accelerate from 0kph to 260kph, and back to 0kph in the course of one rotation before it comes back into contact with the road again. Even at the most basic level I find it hard to comprehend the forces operating on a tyre. And we expect these things to reliably for 30,000km with minimal maintenance. (When did you last check your tyre pressures?) Link to post Share on other sites
marnix 0 Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 I got a tire check once although there was little snow on the road they wanted me to use snow chains. It took about 5 minutes (and more and more cars pulling up behind me) that they understood I wouldn't do it and they let me go through. Link to post Share on other sites
wattiewatson 0 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Ok too late for the OP but here is some advice, For Nagano/Niigata Total pot luck on whether you NEED snow tyres. If it snowed the previous night or on your journey you will need either snow tyres or chains. Snow tyres make a huge difference. Even though they are studless they make a huge difference. Dont know how but they do. If it hasnt snowed and you are a confident driver you can get away without anything. Not saying its smart or legal but it can be done. I drove all last year on normal tyres and got away with it. A couple of spins here and there but managed to avoid everything. Its really stupid and if it snows a decent amount you are screwed. This year is a normal snow year. I have had to put my car in low ratio 4WD a couple of times and had to do some digging to get through some back roads. Its highly likely that you will need snow tyres or chains. If you get off the beaten track you will also need a shovel. Toll Roads I have been told that somewhere there is what was described as a snow line and beyond it you needed snow tyres or chains. I pretty much always get checked at Myoko IC if the weather is bad. I think Iiyama Toyota IC (closest to Nozawa) is also north of the snow line. I also think you have an obligation to have snow tyres or chains on normal roads above the snow line. Not totally sure but the local cops have checked me before. I dont know whether its a legal or moral obligation as these two seem to be blurred a lot in Japan. Accident without snow tyres Pretty sure you will be screwed on the percentage of liability if you dont have snow tyres or chains. The cost of a tow truck is about $350 if its in an accessable spot. Matt Link to post Share on other sites
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