The philosophy of fun

[damian 0]

Where do you draw the line in having fun? What if fun means flying or driving or adding to the destruction of natural habitat? Do you stop having fun with that cost?

 

Taking it further along the line of logic: What if fun means allocating mental and emotional commitment away from establishing a sustainable small footprint for you and your family? A buffer between you and commercial dependency that you create both as a moral imperative and also in cautious anticipation of unlikely yet more severe outcomes, such as a future loss of commercial resources (like significantly diminished supply of food at your local massive supermarket with 200 space car park). Would this stop you from having fun?

 

Even further down the line: If one were to be responsible for gathering the food energy required to keep he and his family alive, would we still use this food energy to climb mountains? If we are climbing mountains, or riding bikes for fun, are we consuming more than we need? Where do we draw the line between how we are today and the way of the Amish? Would you draw the line before reaching this point? Why?

 

Is climbing to the top of a mountain the type of ego driven energy intensive activity common place in capitalism? Why go that high? Why go so far? Why not stay closer to home?

 

If the dominance of Christianity and Capitalism responsible for our current plight, would Islam and its attitude towards consumption and fun be better for the environment?

 

Why is it that the people who care the most about the environment are the very ones that have travelled internationally the most? They care the most because they have seen the most, yet they have themselves helped create the problem by exploring every corner of the Earth and then settling down to proclaim that travel is bad. Do you think the benefit of being broad minded from extensive travel is worth the cost? Would you go without that fun and awareness if it meant the momentous swing towards travel and globalisation was to be tempered?

 

Who decides how much fun is a bad thing? The people who have the best answers are usually those who have already had their fill of fun themselves.

 

How many items of comfort, fun and entertainment do you own that you simply do not need? How much of your ‘fun’ is a superficial thrill beneficial to no one but yourself and destructive in small but cumulatively meaningful way to nature? If it feels good today yet only a memory in the future, do you still do it?

 

Do you react with bravado or defiantly or aggressively or defensively or feel uncomfortably when you encounter people who contrast your philosophy of pleasure? Do you even know that you behave according to a philosophy of pleasure? Do you view fun and pleasure as a commodity, like a bottle of orange juice that some communities don’t have or don’t want or don’t need?

 

For a moment hypothesise about a nasty situation where everything we need to live the way we live today went quickly spiralling down the tube in the next 5 years as oil hits $100 and land ice continues to melt faster than we thought . Do you feel more confident about your family’s future in the knowledge that governments might step in to administer public resources, to regulate the distribution of wealth and to limit the amount of individual pleasure for the benefit of social equity and sustainability?

 

If this were 1942 would you jump in the car each weekend and head off to a ski resort for hooting and fun? Or would you feel too guilty?

 

Do you find fleeting comfort in thinking that global warming might hypothetically make Europe colder via a mini ice age? Even though we can’t forecast the weather next week in Monte Carlo, do you still placate that tingle of concern in your stomach with anything that might support your addiction to fun?

 

Could you go without fun? Would dancing around the Maypole be good enough to fulfil your need for entertainment? Will computer games give you the fun you need? Do you hold yourself above other people who appear to live with commitment and purpose, yet need almost no entertainment or fun at all?

 

Does the future health and prosperity of your children keep you awake at night, just a little bit? Do you think your childless neighbour is selfish for driving a big car and flying quite often? If your neighbour refuses to go without energy driven fun, do you resolve to go without even more just to offset their consumption? If not, is it because your pride as a competitive capitalist prevents you? If you don’t recognise your place in a political ideal, how about a religious ideal? Does giving up your fun for the benefit of your family, despite the growing greed of your neighbour, reconcile with your Christian ideals that you no doubt claim to hold?

 

These are some of the questions I think about when consuming resources for fun and feeling guilty about it, yet unable to work out where the line should be drawn and who should draw that line.

 

I don’t expect this thread to go very far.

[indosnm 0]

Long post spud!

Mate, you got time on your hands or a boring job?

[Ocean11 0]

Just a random response to a very well expressed and provocative load of questions;

 

> governments might step in to administer public resources, to regulate the distribution of wealth and to limit the amount of individual pleasure for the benefit of social equity and sustainability?

 

I suspect that in such a situation a lot of people would discover pleasures and fun of which they had no inkling and that they never would have thought were possible. They might not continue to find it fun for ever, but it might still be eye-opening.

 

If you feel guilty about consuming resources for fun (as seems unavoidable for any informed person these days), it might sometimes be a good antidote to try creating resources for fun - with resources interpreted in a broad sense so you can at least get started.

 

A philosophy of fun is good to have. I've just decided to start running for fun, instead of for the big amalgam of reasons that hitherto I've run for (and after). This arises from waking up to what might be some permanent infirmities and deciding not to struggle against them mindlessly.

[Thunderpants 0]

Maan, you are certainly carrying a big cross on your shoulders, jesus f. christ!

 

what are you going to do? stop breathing. that would reduce the co2 emission, no wait, how about the micro organisms that break down your dead corpse, they produce CO2 also, what are you going to do now???

 

Spud take a deep breath and relax. i will not open the whole global warming discussion again, but i will tell you this: The whole global warming discussion is loaded with non-facts being presented as the opposite.

 

So everyone is crying about the glaciers melting, yeah sure they are melting, we are coming out of an ice age, they have never been bigger than they were 175 years ago. the glaciers were a lot smaller 1100 years ago than they were today.

these are real facts, but few people want to listen to that. the alarmists sets the agenda today, and anyone who dares talking against them are neo cons, oil prostitutes or worse.

I am really tired of that!

So do i think global warming is a hoax... i don't know to be honest. i am defiantly not a part of the alarmist club, but i think we should act on the problem.

 

To get back to your subject of having fun. I think everyone should use the resources of the planet responsibly, whatever that means. if sitting in your unwarmed flat in Neuen Sheissestad makes sense to you, if you feel more pure by practicing your religion that way, then by all means do it! but doing so will never change the world that way.

 

I personally don't feel guilty making the trip to hakuba from shizuoka every week (700 km round trip) this coming season. It will drain my wallet and i will be bitching about that, but guilty? nope, sorry.

 

Whenever i read your posts where you mention global warming, you speak of it as a religion. and you are seeking purity by living from the xxx commandments of the global warming bible.

 

I am sorry if i sound a little harsh, i don't mean to be rude to you. i always enjoy reading your posts, the above one included.

 

you really need to relax. maybe in another 20 years or so they will find signs of an ice age coming.

By the way a scientist called Henrik Svensmark , has just published a theory explaining a possible connection between cosmic radiation and creation of clouds on earth. i have been unable to find links in English for you, but look out for that name if you are interested. his findings are based on solid science and real results.

[damian 0]

Hi Thunder, I didn't think you were harsh, but I'd better set the record straight (because I can see how you interpreted my thoughts the way you did).

 

I'm not proclaiming anything, nor seeking redemption or purity as you put it. I'm simply thinking about the dimensions of the issue that form part of the web of reason in my head. I can pretty quickly lead from 'fun' to 'consumption' to 'political and/or religious ideology'. To some I'm sure that progression seems esoteric, but hopefully they will at least see the contemporary relevance of these things. Just because I asked "do you think XYZ...?" doesn't mean I believe XYZ is correct or what have you. I simply think that XYZ is part of the process of reasoning when it comes to why we live like we do and what the implications of those behaviours are. I love fun and adventure, so for me it is natural to explore the philosophy of 'it' (fun), particularly so when the emotion of guilt pops its head up here and there. That doesn't mean it (fun) should stop. I'm quiet sure I will continue to have fun. (And I will continue to think about it.)

 

 

>it might sometimes be a good antidote to try creating resources for fun - with resources interpreted in a broad sense so you can at least get started.

 

Ocean - I think it is natural for man to seek adventure and challenge as a form of fun. We started doing this when adventure and challenge were no longer part of basic survival. If resources and environment continue to deplete and hardship is prolific, then I'm quite sure many of us will find fun in our own little battle for survival (not to be interpreted in the dramatic sense). Man likes a battle, no doubt we get fun from it. Many of us go out and seek situations of hardship just to then exercise our skills in survivalism... for pleasure. If society progresses towards a renaissance in consumption and resources waste then I wouldn't be at all surprised if people generated fun from conserving what we have and consuming in a way to minimalise externalities.

[Ocean11 0]

> If this were 1942 would you jump in the car each weekend and head off to a ski resort for hooting and fun? Or would you feel too guilty?

 

I would consider it my patriotic duty to do so.

 

http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/nw_german_chasseurs_01.jpg

(Link to an overly large, thread distorting picture with only tangential relevance to the topic.)

 

(I had fun posting that. Again.)

 

Thunderpants, you must have been looking for the Henrik Svensmark stuff in a porn 'resource' or something. When you try Googling that again, make sure you turn Unsafe Searching off.

[Thunderpants 0]

I think we need a picture of a person who was having fun at other peoples expense

[Thunderpants 0]

http://www.dsri.dk/~hsv/Noter/solsys99.html

 

sorry didn't Google properly before

I was reading a danish newspaper and found an interesting article, guess i should have done the searching before myself.

 

My only point in posting his name and this article was to show that there may me other factors to the warming.

 

I have said it before and i would like to do it again:

 

I think it is irresponsible to ignore the possibility that co2 might be a factor in the warming of earth.

 

 

Enough emission from me tonight

[damian 0]

Ocean11 - perfect picture in the thread. But does it have to be so big?

[Ocean11 0]

Thunderpants, interesting as that scientist's contribution may be, for me emissions is only one part of the picture. Entertainments and activities involving intensive energy use are also one of the drivers of the resource wars for which many countries are gearing up.* I believe this kind of thing won't be much fun in the future, and already it's not a lot of fun for a lot of people now. As far as I'm able, I want to remove myself as part of the problem. So far my attempts have been enjoyable and rewarding.

 

(I remember mikazooki posted a link to "A Consumption Manifesto", of which Principle Nine is "Don't feel guilty. It only makes you sad." At the time I was thinking hard about my philosophy of fun and I found that a comfort. Then I came to recognize the complete vacuity of this 'principle'. If you feel guilty, that's probably because you are guilty, and the only way to stop feeling it is to stop being it, or otherwise live with the feeling until you can do something about it.

 

*

 Quote:

In February, when he was Defence Secretary, John Reid revealed that British military planners were already preparing for conflicts arising from the scramble for resources in 20 to 30 years' time.

[damian 0]

 Quote:

If you feel guilty, that's probably because you are guilty, and the only way to stop feeling it is to stop being it, or otherwise live with the feeling until you can do something about it.

Or change the structure and intensity of your beliefs. We all live in the exact same physical world, yet we all have different emotions from experiencing that world. These differences arise from us interpreting the physical world according to our individual belief system.

If you feel guilty for masturbating all you have to do is stop believing in god.

[Oyuki kigan 0]

 Quote:

If you feel guilty for masturbating all you have to do is stop believing in god. [/QB]

Well, there is a reason it is called 自慰　in japanese.

Are you having `fun` simply because you like it? Or is it to replace something else that is missing in your life?

[AK 77 0]

Spud, can you touch type?

 

Going to read it all now...

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by le spud:
Or change the structure and intensity of your beliefs.

If they were changable at will, they wouldn't qualify as beliefs. And niggling pangs of conscience can take the fun out of the fun. (Not that I'm that fanatical in practice, but I won't be throwing lit fireworks into any more lakes, however amusing the results might be.)

[Yuki's Passion 1]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Oyuki kigan:

 Quote:

If you feel guilty for masturbating all you have to do is stop believing in god.

Well, there is a reason it is called 自慰　in japanese.
[/QB]

自慰??WTF? Nobody ever uses that save for maybe a doctor You sound like my textbook sounding students

[Oyuki kigan 0]

I think its one of the best words for masturbation.

 

For those that haven`t heard it in lieu of its more commonly used `onanie`, it literally means `self consolation`.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

sounds like it came outta medical dictionary. Well, there are many more but, whatever, if that suits you then all the best

[damian 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Oyuki kigan:
Are you having `fun` simply because you like it? Or is it to replace something else that is missing in your life?

A lot of what we do is pure play and I am sure we are inclined to do it because it is good for us. Kind of like a dog playing around. It serves no productive purpose and the dogs primary instinct is survival. Yet dogs 'play'. So do dolphins. People aren't much different in our instinctive need for play and fun.

Ak77 – I can’t touch type properly, I use two fingers for the letter keys and one thumb for the space bar. I often don’t look at the keyboard and type so fast that my boss calls me the machine gun. I actually think I am becoming autistic (?) as without even knowing it I frequently type words backwards or out of order. It amazes me what appears on screen compared to what was in my brain. “teh” is a classic example. There are heaps others and I have to go through the text and correct them all, heaps of errors are just fat fingers. I type all my posts in a text editor, not the little forum text window.

Ocean – people change ‘beliefs’ all the time. Check this out: read the opening post then the posts from you, me and Miteyak, bless his missing soul . Oh how the times have changed. Real beliefs are hard to change, even if the beliefs are unfounded: “all dogs are a threat” is a belief based on one aggressive dog you met as a 5 year old. That belief is hard to change and wrong, but it is part of what influences how you experience the external physical world.

I think applying persuasion via the emotion of raw guilt is not productive. It is perhaps not as bad, but still in the same league as influencing people via an even more basic emotion like envy. Not all guilty instincts are based on correct and sound beliefs either. It’s better to step past the basic emotion of guilt and lead by demonstrating the underlying reason for the emotional conflict (the guilt). If it is based on a sound belief then a reasonable person will see that global warming is bad and needs to be acted upon as opposed to the less productive conclusion that guilt is bad, and therefore needs to be dealt with. Work the problem, not the guilty emotional by-product, if that makes sense?

[Ocean11 0]

le spud, I remember that debate. I also recognize with hindsight that when I was living in Nagano, I was actually having a 4-year old holiday from my true self. The gibberish I posted there reflects that. You can smell the 'goddamn you all' hedonism of my outlook.

 

I remember sometime when I was quite young - 10 maybe - sitting in the bath and doing a stocktake of all the lines of resources that supported my existence, and all the damage that consuming the resources can do (at that age I didn't know the half of it), and doubting whether I really merited that damage. That is my true self, and I'm back there again now. My philosophy of fun actually used to be much truer to that than it was a couple of years ago. (Sorry Thunderpants, some people are just naturally like that...)

 

When I first came to Japan, all my recreational equipment, including bikes, was from the sodai gomi. My current snorkeling gear is what I picked up off the street in Osaka 14 years ago (the prescription goggles conveniently match my eyesight). And boy, have I had some fun with that gear.

 

Without wanting to be a huge spoilsport, I see merit in avoiding being 'hell bent on pleasure' as my mother puts it, especially since my kid is now coming to the age where the formation of his sense of 'fun' is under seige from marketers.

 

> Not all guilty instincts are based on correct and sound beliefs either.

 

That's true, but I think I can spot those fairly easily after threescore years and ten.

[Mantas 3]

I think I'll leave this thread alone. Doesn't sound like much fun

[damian 0]

>>Doesn't sound like much fun

[Ocean11 0]

I've just finished translating a whole bunch of rules for a sports club in Yokohama, with all the jobsworthy details of signing in and getting a coloured wristband, and vouching for each of your tattoos.

 

Fark that for a game of soldiers! That doesn't have any room in my philosophy of fun.