Same sex marriage

[damian 0]

>>it's you who will one day wake up and find gay marriages legal in most developed nations<<

 

Could you imagine!

 

 

Mrs11: "Ocean, have you met the new neigbours yet? I did yesterday, they are a lovely couple... newlyweds are so romantic! Anyhow, I had a nice chat with them. Mike is a plumber and Steve is a Chef. I noticed that they were skiers and mentioned that you and H11 would love to take them to the snow. They are new to Japan and you could show them some good on-piste ski areas in the vicinity. Anyhow, I am a little nervous right now, after all, Steve is a chef. What will I cook them for dinner tonight? They will be here at 7pm. Oh, and if you are looking for H11, he is in their driveway showing off his skate boarding tricks. He looks so cute wearing the pink feather boa that they gave him"

[Ocean11 0]

Mike, Steve, enchanté...

[proudtobegay 0]

OK in order to try to win your respect I must take part in more non-sexual discussion.

 

Gambarimasu!

[mogski 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:
[QB]Wrong. The fact that I have high paying clients is my qualification. You have the genuine goods, you're qualified. Already proved it. No need to test. It's not a complicated issue.

I was goign to refrain from comment on this cause it would be hijakcing the thread, but I just couldn't leave it alone.

This is an awfully niave perspective on business is it not. You got the goods, you are qualified? Says you, but you are not the one forking out the dollars to use you?! Don't suppose you expect to expand your business much then if that is the attitude you wish to take.

I applaud you for having the motivation to set up your own business, but your business is only as good as you sell it.

Sorry to all for hijacking the thread.

[Ocean11 0]

mogski, what, are you going to ask either Mike or Steve above for a test or a sample before you use their services?

 

In the translation business, as with many others, every job you do is a test. It's simply the high prevalence of housewives and simpletons calling themselves translators that makes other simpletons want tests from obviously qualified people. I judge the likelihood of big work before I comply, as I'm not particularly naiive.

[Goemon 0]

How did mogski get through the metal detectors?

 

(21C: thank you for posting some other topics)

[Thunderbird2 0]

Interesting thread that one - takes quite a bit of reasoning.

 

I have nothing against homosexuals, but do not think that they should be given the same rights. No way. Stop it. The world is going mad.

[Ocean11 0]

I see that those most in favour of same-sex marriage still haven't found anything odd about this;

 

 Quote:

the fact that you express concern over a boy learning homosexual behaviour suggests you feel the behaviour is wrong

Considering how quickly you all jumped on practically every point I made to voice your disagreement, I can only assume that you see nothing wrong with the idea of an otherwise normal boy 'learning homosexual behaviour' by god only knows what means.

 

So that means, I assume, that you wouldn't have minded being taught the basic curriculum yourself, and that when you have children (if you ever do), you'll be keen for them to have access to all the educational materials of homosexuality.

 

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick...?

[Antonio 0]

what is the "basic curriculum" you speak of?

 

how exactly would a child "learn homosexual behaviour"?

 

what are the "educational materials of homosexuality"?

[Ocean11 0]

A child would learn homosexual behaviour from being in the care of homosexuals. That should be pretty obvious. That's partly what this thread is about.

 

The curriculum would be the whole gamut of how homosexuals form their relationships, how to be proud of something that is not really something to be proud of, and how to deflect criticism and manipulate opinion about the nature of being gay.

 

The materials - well, those would vary depending on the method and intensity of instruction. "Now listen son, your Daddies are very special daddies. Unlike other daddies, we come in twos and..."

 

Hell, I don't know, I'm not in favour of this sort of thing anyway. Ask mikazooki or anybody else who doesn't see any cause for concern in homosexuals adopting children.

[proudtobegay 0]

...something that is not really something to be proud of

 

Er, why is that?

[mogski 0]

A boy becoming a homosexual by association?

 

By that same assumption I take it then that all of us foreginers here in Japan have become Japanese

[proudtobegay 0]

Laughable, isn't it?

[Ocean11 0]

Well actually mogski, I have become rather good at Japanese in the time I've been here, I have a Japanese wife, and I have made my own little Japanese person. Laughable 21C? On which side of your face? Poor choice of analogy...

 

21C, I'm sorry that you haven't heard this before, but in many ways I'm not surprised. So anyway, here's why being gay is nothing to be proud of.

 

Sexuality has a primarily biological purpose. Before anybody starts protesting that it's also fun, I know that, but that's not its purpose. Normal sexuality is sexuality that fulfils the purpose. Abnormal sexuality is sexuality that does not. My sexuality is normal with a few abnormalities thrown in. Am I proud of that? Of course not. What have I done to be proud of? I was born this way. (Already you can see where this is going right?)

 

Now, the same applies to homosexuals equally, except that their sexuality doesn't fulfill any purpose. So not only do they compound the folly of being proud of something completely normal, they are actually proud of what is abnormal. I know its not polite to go saying this, but if you want to go around being conspicuously and foolishly proud, you can't be surprised if some people guffaw.

 

Not only is homosexuality not of value in itself, it is also a social problem. There is the question of what to do with homosexuals - they can get married and have children, but they don't like to. You can't go simply giving them children to look after as that wouldn't be fair to the children. You can try to be polite and not make a big deal out of it, but it's made rather difficult by a lack of self knowledge on the part of many gays and the gay lobby.

 

So, I have stated my point of view quite clearly. Now, would anybody like to explain what exactly about being gay there is to be proud of, and why it would be good if more people learn about it?

[proudtobegay 0]

 Quote:

Now, would anybody like to explain what exactly about being gay there is to be proud of, and why it would be good if more people learn about it?

Well, if you need to question someone over things that they might be proud of - agree or disagree - and in such a sarcastic manner, then you obviously do not deserve an answer.

I have noticed you really are sensitive on issues of sexuality/marriage/children, aren't you? It seems to be the thing that gets you going the most. Are you sure you're not homosexual yourself? And just trying to prove otherwise by making your own little Japanese person - which you seem so proud of (well done!, must have been difficult that one).

I have met many gays just like you before, Ocean11 - I think you should just take a deep breath and come out and reveal your true homosexual self.

 Quote:

Laughable 21C? On which side of your face? Poor choice of analogy...

Hilarious!

[MistaSparkle 0]

Ocean, would you argue that the viewpoints you have are not directly influenceed by a Christian value system?

 

e.g.

Sex that is not for the purpose of procreation = bad.

 

Deviation from "normal" sexuality = bad.

 

Homosexuality = bad.

[Ocean11 0]

21C, what you're saying there is that you've met a great deal of people who aren't actually homosexuals but who have been through the curriculum and came to their own conclusions. I note you don't give any reasons for your pride, and you play the stalest card in the gay pack - the closet-gay counter accusation. Is it any wonder people get so bored of gays and their prattle? So, what exactly are you proud of again?

 

Mr *, I can't see why you keep going back to the Christian thing. From a biological point of view, it's 'good' to have children. Not coincidentally, it's a satisfying thing. Although I don't really want to go through the hassle of having another kid, I sometimes wonder what will happen if my kid dies. While there's an aspect of rational calculation in that daily thought, there's also a biological voice in there too. That has nothing to do with Christianity.

 

I have nothing against sex for the sake of it in general either. Far from it. But in terms of what sex is for ultimately, who can deny that it's purpose is procreation? (Of course it is a tragic mistake that religious extremists make to take that to a logical extreme).

 

As for "Deviation from "normal" sexuality = bad", it's not "bad" in itself. Nor does that mean conversely that its good either. It might have some consequences that need to be controlled. As far as what's odd about me, I don't go wearing it on my sleeve and inviting people to share my pride and joy in it. Homosexuality is only bad in so far as it doesn't recognize itself for what it is, and for what it isn't too. In many ways, the gay lobby has clouded that issue, and I'm sure there are lot of people who are coming to realize that.

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by 21C:

 Quote:

Laughable 21C? On which side of your face? Poor choice of analogy...

Hilarious!

The point, in case you missed it, was that just as we learn Japanese and end up mating Japanese after being immersed in the culture, so people can learn homosexual behaviour after a similar immersion. It happens all the time in prisons. You wouldn't want to risk a similar thing with children.

And 21C - you say I'm sensitive about children, marriage etc. Wrong - I have some adult opinions about these things based on my daily experience, and unlike you, I'm not totally engrossed in my own sexual 'backwater'.

[damian 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:
So, I have stated my point of view quite clearly. Now, would anybody like to explain what exactly about being gay there is to be proud of

If I had my personal beliefs insulted and mocked by someone who is different to me (and we are all different) and then had them challenge me to explain why I am how I am, why I am who I am and why I am proud!!

What utter arrogance. Whats worse, it is written and posed to be nothing more than insulting. The gaul to suggest that another law abiding human being be expected to justify their personal pride, the core of their self esteem. Seriously, it is so insulting it defies description.

Ocean, in this world of seemingly lucky dip sexuality determination, what if your boy end up gay? By your logic, YOU will have nothing to be proud of. Think about it.

In this thread you have stated two things that diminish anything else you have to say:

1. homosexuals are not equal,
2. homosexuals have no right of personal pride.

You are a bigot who insults nearly everyone who opens their mouth.

Enjoy your life, err..... forum. Goodbye.

[nzlegend 1]

 Quote:

Originally posted by db:
Enjoy your life, err..... forum. Goodbye.

dont go db, I appreciate your incisive input and wisdom (about finacial matters)
Just ignore that which infuriates you, it would be a shame to see you go.

[damian 0]

Kamo,

not actually gone from the forum, just switched off to that which detracts from my day.

 

As for infuriated, not at all. I was pefectly calm. However, I was also perfectly offended as an individual, a human, a person (and I hope a good one at that).

 

BTW - I eventually had a disposable developed and there is a shot of you in the failing light outside snowbeds. The reflectors on your shoulders, shoes etc are glowing in the camera flash like a spaceman! It was with myself , you + GF (but not the cute blondy you were hanging with).

[proudtobegay 0]

Yes, I agree with what the fine mr barok said in another thread - and so will gracefully withdraw from the line of insults here and just ignore the topic. (Well, maybe take a glance to see if anything constructive is going on in the thread).

 

Peace and good vibes!

[Ocean11 0]

OK, db, you're upset. I'm sorry that you're upset, especially so as you're upset for the wrong reason. Take a deep breath and try to get this straight.

 

 Quote:

1. homosexuals are not equal,

2. homosexuals have no right of personal pride.

1. homosexuals are not equal when it comes to marriage.

2. homosexuals' pride in their sexuality alone is no grounds for pride.

That's vastly different from what you're saying I said.

 

As I said above, homosexuals should be granted MOST of the rights that come with marriage, although not the right to marriage itself. That would be only fair. From what 21C himself has said, that might satisfy many too.

 

 Quote:

Ocean, in this world of seemingly lucky dip sexuality determination, what if your boy end up gay? By your logic, YOU will have nothing to be proud of. Think about it.

Again, that's a distortion. I have never said homosexuals have nothing to offer. I have lived and worked with them, and in my experience, the less they are 'proud' of being gay, the better they are as people. Heteros who have nothing to offer but their sexuality are just as much a drag to be with. If my boy ends up gay, I could accept that, although not as some rare blessing, that's for sure.

 

As for this being 'bigotry', that's offensive nonsense. I have no blanket hatred or even dislike for gays - I recognise that everyone is different, and one of my best friends at school was gay. But in as much as there is a gay lobby that promotes twisted bullshit, I feel at liberty to contradict it.

 

--------------------------

 

Finally, as to the tone of this forum;

Everybody who is complaining, presumably at/including me, has had a little swipe at me at one time or another - often a personal one. They don't like it when I swipe right back as I always will. To me, this is a forum for discussion, not somewhere to sit nodding in dumb agreement.

 

There's usually a good ole dose of downright hypocrisy in all the whining about this too. Take barok's Africa Aids post as an example. While righeously complaining about the tone and the personal invective which he sees here, he takes a big, gutless, whining, indiscriminate swipe, without having the nuts to stick any names on it. Then a few other's join in. You're all equally responsible. And you too db when you twist what I or anybody else says.

 

Nice going kids.

[HotMagma 0]

It is often the people who turn up with a 1 sentence comment that are the worst offenders. While I may not agree with Mr Ocean all the time, and the way he maybe says his things - he at least backs himself up.

[barok 0]

Ocean11

 

I try hard not to take cheap-shots, name call, or degrade anyone else`s opinion. I think it is ugly and pointless, fighting on an internet forum, that is. What does name calling or attacking someone accomplish except to alienate people who are on the board, and people who are thinking of joining the discussion? And yeah, personal attacks do bring down a board. Who wants to join a board where everybody gets harassed for their opinions. I don`t think people should agree with each other, but I don`t want to be somewhere where everybody is talkin` smack either - neither place is a good discussion. Really this isn`t so hard to see, from what I said before.

 

As for my Africa`n AIDS disclaimer, It`s my wish that the people who are degrading other posters, or people who are eager to get into fights, whoever they are, I don`t care, but they should take it elsewhere - private messages, other forums whatever. Naming names is pointless, because it makes it look like I have personal problems with some people, and that I think I am perfect, or at least better then they are, when I don`t. I just don`t like the flaming. And yeah, I have been guilty of it myself once or twice in the past. It has just become much more prevalent as of late. I thought my message made all of this clear.

 

Finally, I don`t get why you think my comments were aimed at you. You`ve seen the threads where it`s just back and forth name calling ? Those were my inspiration.