green 0 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 When I leave my aparto to either go back home or move somewhere else, do you ever get any money back or is it all swallowed up with "repairs" and other excuses? I am preparing for a possible move and want to know if I should be prepared to be ripped or even be faced with a bill. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Green, When you signed your contract the amount of key money that will be deducted should be explictly written in your contract. If you paid 60 man then maybe they deduct 40 man leaving you with 20 man left. I know the feeling, I felt like I was leaving with two a$$hole$ the day I signed my apartment contract. Kansai and shikikin sucks. Hopefully Ill live here long enough to make it worthwhile... Read over your rental agreement and see. It IS stated in it. Link to post Share on other sites
green 0 Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 OK thanks. But what about stuff like wooden flooring getting marks on it, a bit of wood on the windows starting to rot and shit like that? Is that "covered"? Who decides what? Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Dont know about that - probably varies from realitor to realitor. I asked mine very detailed questions about everything, got answers from them and took pictures of my place before moving in of every ding, scratch, fault, that could be a problem when i move out. From what Ive heard basically natural wear and tear will occur while living in a place is covered under key money like replacing tatami, cleaning bathrooms,etc... ask your realitor. Link to post Share on other sites
veronica 2 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 I hope so. But I try very hard to avoid my realitor (?) at all costs. Slimey man, who seems to like me. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 The key money ("rei-kin") is just a straight gift to the landlord. They keep it all. Your security deposit ("shiki-kin") is pretty much what it is in your home country. The landlord can keep some of it to cover damage to the place. How much do they take, and what is the standard? Again, it's a lot like being back home. Some landlords are angels, others crooks. And most are somewhere in between: "BUSINESSPEOPLE". Most landlords find that withholding part or all of a security deposit is good business practice for them. If they do it 10 times, only 4 people will actually complain, and of the 4, 3 give up or settle for a partial refund after one or two phone calls. What the heck. They've moved on, they cannot easily figure out and follow any formal procedures such as "small claims court" or what have you, and they probably damaged something and/or can't prove they didn't. And 1 of the ten may put up a fight (I am the 1 in 10). It's an effective business practice for landlords. That's the reality. I've had several apartment changes in Tokyo and lived here for over 8 years. Based on my personal experience and what J and foreign pals have told me, here you can expect the landlord to deduct some kind of cleaning fee. A range of 30,000 to 50,000 yen is about what I've seen for this. Anything higher gets into ripoff or "damage recovery" territory. A lot of places deduct big sums to put in new tatami, replace fusuma paper, do special range hood cleaning, or the old standby, "fumigate for pest control". However, most of them never do this. Did the place have new tatami, fusuma paper, a shiny range hood and no bugs when you moved in? I doubt it. Most places I've been in looked about like somebody's Mom gave them a pretty good clean, but the tatami is old, the fusuma paper only replaced if ripped, and the range hood a nightmare with cockroach legs and grease stuck up the flue. If you have a dispute in Tokyo, you can make a complaint to the Tokyo Housing Bureau or something like that. I once did that, when a landlord tried to withhold 170,000 yen for "cleaning". The Bureau was able to tell me what the normal range in my neighborhood was for a cleaning fee. It was "below 50,000". When I confronted the landlord with this information, they said that their cleaning was "special". I reminded them that when I moved in, the range hood had bugs stuck in deep grease, along with human hairs; old tatami, used fusuma paper, cobwebs and mold in the bathroom. I had pictures. I had had them come out after move-in to try to clean the range hood...the poor guy spent 3 hrs. with a can of engine degreaser and even that didn't do the trick. Losing on that point, the landlord then said the high price was for "fumigation" for pest control, which they "always do". I had pics of cobwebs and roach legs and asked them to show me a receipt (bad idea to ask for receipts, they usually have a brother or pal in the contracting business who can give any receipt they want). At this point they gave up and took 50,000, but it could have gone on. The next place I rented, the landlady was gem. On moveout, she had nothing but praise for the way I'd made the place shine. She'd brought along the contractor, who they use to fix up the place for the next tenant, so I could hear his estimate of costs. This prick went round trying to find every possible thing wrong and to rack up costs. There really wasn't much, but he kept niggling over it, then finally the landlady looked him square in the eye and told him to Stop It, the place was fine. They only took 30,000... Good luck with it. Best to have pics and witnesses, be calm and reasonable, and expect to lose some moderate amount for cleaning. Sitting here now, I find myself wishing my job was "landlord". Link to post Share on other sites
viv&kev 0 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 When we moved we had to pay about 40000 yen for cleaning, other than that there weren't any problems. I have heard some horror stories though. Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Photos is a great idea. Link to post Share on other sites
sunrise 0 Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 If you're been in a place for more than (I think the timeframe is) 4 years, everything that's normal wear and tear is illegal for landlords to try and take money to fix. As long as you haven't trashed the place you shouldn't be charged for normal wear and tear. I had a friend who went to court because her landlord wanted to keep her entire deposit. She had photos, witnesses and a good lawyer who insisted she took it to court because people like this guy shouldn't be allowed to get away with it (the lawyer didn't charge any money). She won the case easily. When I move out I already know that the people who own my building will be wanting to charge me extras for wear and tear, on top of a cleaning fee. A neighbour moved and was charged 200,000 yen out of their deposit. I told them to fight it, but the wife was Japanese and didn't want to. They'd been there for over 5 years. I'm certainly not going to let that happen, I've been in my abode for over 6. I agree with the previous post - check in with the Bureau. Tenants in Japan have lots of rights. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted May 27, 2004 Share Posted May 27, 2004 Quote: Originally posted by veronica: Slimey man, who seems to like me. Take it when you can get it. Link to post Share on other sites
grungy-gonads 54 Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Quote: Tenants in Japan have lots of rights That is sure good to hear. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts