gamera 0 Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Always give me hard time. There's a lot of star IN the sky. Why IN !?!?!?!? Besides 'that's how it goes' !?!? 'Sky' is something like a box in English conception? ON duty but AT work..... why? lol... get ON a train but get IN a car !!!!!! Cho- fukuzatsu A bird flies OVER the house -> That bird doesn't get in the house, right?? A bird flies ACROSS the house -> That bird goes through the house, right? My brain goes to explode when I think about prepositions Native English speakers - How has everyone mastered prepositions? Link to post Share on other sites
sakebomb 0 Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Gamera, you are not alone. One of my best students is very fluent in English but prepositions do his head in. We went through this and it seemed to help Prepositions ? It is a bit of a read but it might be helpful. There's a lot of star IN the sky. In is used with buildings/rooms and places that can be thought of as surrounding a person or object on all sides. Over, your right! Across, your right, in the case of the bird it flies across the room therefore from one side to the other. Eg To swim across the river! I don't remember how I learnt about prepositions, kind of ingrained now! Link to post Share on other sites
gamera 0 Posted March 27, 2005 Author Share Posted March 27, 2005 Thanks sakebomb Seems some difference depends on the region. I.e. AmE and BrE.(American English and British English ) AT the weekend in BrE ON the weekend in AmE I have to ask where people are from before talking with them lol...... Link to post Share on other sites
unit 0 Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 As the the sky, think of it like a big swimming pool and you'll be right. Things float and fly in the sky the same as things float and swim in a pool. We use "get on" for mass public transport, planes trains, buses etc but "get in" is for smaller private cars/boats....At least I think that's how it works? Why?..the same reason you say 電車をおりる but 電車に乗る. Why を in one case but に in the other? Japanese particles do my head in too!! If you try and think too much about why certain things are said you're brain will explode!!! Mines come close plenty of times! Sometimes there is no reason and sounds like you've it before but sorry- that's just how it is. Link to post Share on other sites
scouser 4 Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 I don't even know what prepositions are, different from propositions right? Link to post Share on other sites
gamera 0 Posted March 27, 2005 Author Share Posted March 27, 2005 Quote: Originally posted by unit: Why?..the same reason you say 電車をおりる but 電車に乗る. Why を in one case but に in the other? Hum... a little get out the point, I guess. 電車'に'乗る--->You get IN a train. 電車'を'降りる---> You get OUT OF ( or OFF) a train. Correct? I know what you mean, anyway 電車 is an object in this case, so your point is why に and を in different case. I think this bases on the difference of the sphere of defence. English transitive verbs include some parts of prepositions. For example I GIVE you a book - this 'give' is a transitive verb, so it doesn't accompany any prepositions. I GO to the station - this 'go' is an intransitive verb, so it needs a preposition ( 'TO' in this case ) to identify the direction. But if the direction were an adverb (i.e. 'there', 'home'), no preposition needed!! Japanese verbs are almost always used like intransitive verbs. When you English speaking people use GIVE, I guess no preposition pops up in your mind if you use it in the meanings of '与える'. But when we Japanese use '与える', we need to add TO WHOM (誰'に') and WHAT (何'を') we are going to give something. The postpositional verticles like 'て''に''を''は''へ''が' are sometimes hard even to us. But I think there's basic rulez If you need to make an subject like 'I', 'You','She' etc, you need to add 'は' or 'が' to 'わたし','あなた' so that 'わたしは','あなたは' work as subjects. When people say わたし'が' or あなた'が' rather than わたし'は' or あなた'は'、it's more like ' It's I do that' rather than 'I do that'. Not a big difference though. Link to post Share on other sites
flipside 0 Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 I also think English has a lot more gray areas when it comes to prepositions and the like. I try to get my students just to remember things as a phrase. 'go to the movies', 'see a movie', 'get on the train', 'get off the train' We don't learn all the rules of grammar when we are kids. We just repeat what we hear from our parents. It's subconscious learning. I ask my Japanese friends about grammar all the time and they can't give me a straight forward answer as to 'why?' Thanks for your little 'grammar bit' though, will try and remember! Ganbattemasu. Link to post Share on other sites
gamera 0 Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 What I wonder the most is, if I put a wrong preposition just after a verb, sometimes it means really different from what I want to express. If it sounds just funny, it's okay but if it sounds rude, impolite, abusive whatever,it's not what I hope. For example 'konck off ' In the UK, it means to knock the door to wake someone inside the room up but in the states it means to make a woman pregnant.... right? (uhm... maybe opposite?) This is really different, I never want to make any of my guests feeling bad saying 'shall I knock you off tomorrow morning?' Does any women want to stay in such a scary accommodation? lol... This is why I have been so nervous about prepositions and always check the verbs and prepositions in my dictionary if it's first time for me to use the verbs in the meanings. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Knock up - get someone preggers... Knock off - to kill someone knock off - to rob a place 'shall I knock you off tomorrow morning?' no thanks... , but I'd like you to knock me up a good breakfast. Link to post Share on other sites
gamera 0 Posted March 28, 2005 Author Share Posted March 28, 2005 Ahhhh thanks miteyak knock up... that's it. See! prepositions always coufuse me a lot I think 'OFF' is seldom used for anything nice? Quote: Originally posted by miteyak: 'shall I knock you off tomorrow morning?' no thanks... , but I'd like you to knock me up a good breakfast. Hahaha don't worry, we can set a morning alarm to your room phone or do you prefer a chubby oyaji to knock you up a good breakfast? Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Good point, gamera. Off is often used for bad things. Unless you're "off your head", that can be fun. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 to knock off work early can be good too... Link to post Share on other sites
gamera 0 Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 Rach, 'off my head' means 'to stop doing something and start doing something fun' right? Like stop working and start going to a ski slope:) ? Miteyak, what do you mean? Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 knock off work... to leave work, clock out, finish for the day Link to post Share on other sites
gamera 0 Posted March 29, 2005 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 Thanks. 'knock off' could mean a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
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