Nozawa Onsen: Best Areas to Ski, Safety, Village

[jokemaker323 0]

Hey all.

 

I've settled on Nozawa Onsen for my first ski trip in Japan and I am incredibly excited. I have just a few questions that can hopefully help me make the best of the trip. I'm a decent skier, but I am not well trained in avalanche safety and when I have skied in places with real risk, I have been with people with a lot of knowledge. This trip I will not have that luxury. I want to be able to ski off piste and enjoy the powder, but I also want to avoid getting into trouble areas where there is legit risk (obviously there is risk even on a flat piste etc etc).

 

Any advice would be incredibly appreciated and can range from telling me to join a group or get a guide to specific areas on the mountain to stick to that are not high risk but can give a good taste of the good stuff.

 

I also want to hear general things about your favorite experiences there to help me make the most of the place. Great restaurants if where I stay doesn't come with dinner? Are all public onsens created equal or are there some that are really special and worth making a specific trip to? Are there any random things a first timer might not stumble upon either skiing or after skiing that you really like? Are most places to stay relatively convenient such that location isn't a huge deal or are there places to avoid?

 

I'm also going to head to see snow monkeys for a day. Easy trip? Recommended?

 

I can't wait to get out there.........

[ippy 66]

Stick to yamabiko until you've been there a while. There are other lines, but genuinely, unless there's almost zero risk I don't touch them. Its a mountain that's very sneaky and can catch you out. If you're good enough, you'll find the main lines (they aint that hard to find) but If you're on your own, they're a bit of a crap shoot :-)

[seemore 66]

If it snows you will find powder on the sides of the piste you don't need to venture to far or put yourself at risk

 

Monkeys are worth the trip wear something warm and wear shoes with good grip

[jokemaker323 0]

Thanks guys. Is it easy/allowed to ski in the trees off the pistes in most places? Are they generally spaced out well enough for good skiing?

[ippy 66]

Depends on your skill level in truth. :>

As for allowable... Ive never been pulled anywhere. Yamabiko is completely free game, I asked dreampow over at sbforums since he's helping tours up there and has the ear of patrol about the more famous line on it, and the policy stated was its not condoned and you do so at your own risk. I think they're realising they need to do something though about it because the rope's not having all that much of an effect. He did mention that they might start posting a daily avi bulletin though. Doubt it'll happen before the end of this season, but sooner the better basically reading between the lines you'll find your answer.

[LiquidX 0]

I like that fancy looking public onsen in the center of the village. Makes for a good photo. Can get busy though.

[jokemaker323 0]

Ippy, thanks so much for looking into this. So if you want to avoid any real avalanche risk (and of course I get that there is always SOME risk), is there still a way to ski off piste? Is no area controlled for in any except groomed pistes? Do people ever go with a guide or a group to do it?

 

My skill level is okay. I have skied with some very good skiers in some tricky places. My personal comfort and knowledge with avalanche safety is not anywhere near as solid and since for once I will not be with my mountain guide type friends, I am a bit reserved here. I want to ski powder and fun terrain with too much stress so I guess I am wondering the best way to do that either by hiring a guide/group or getting some tips on areas to go that are very low risk. I had thought from the above poster that Yamabiko might be that place but you got my alarm bells going again. I'd love to hear some more thoughts on the issue.

 

Also, does anyone have a link to a company to book the snow money day trip? You think it is important to book ahead of time?

[ippy 66]

Don't worry dude, the place is pretty busy, if you're looking for lines you'll have no trouble finding them. Just found another one in fact just off utopia through the trees there. I found it by literally following about ten park rats who obviously ride it all the time. I also ran yet another sketch face into the middle kine by dropping from mizunashi. Not recommended without very good skills, gear and friends. As I say, there's a LOT of lines you can hit up, but sometimes youll end up outside your comfort zone and feel like you're rolling dice. That line off utopia through the trees was fun though, also gives me a more fun way down from paradise than left/right mogul bahn :>

 

Basically... trees in yamabiko are pretty safe. That line down utopia looks pretty damn safe. You can also come off into the trees skiers rught on kurokura. But you have to stick fairly close to the resort line. Trees in mizunashi are also easy going. Again stay in sight of the course, track a bit too far left and youre in some serious terrain. Basically, plenty of lines all over the place. Its taking me a while because I ride on my own, and honestly my tree riding skill isn't that great, so Its hard to venture off into The unknown but I'm slowly getting my head around the place.

[panhead_pete 27]

I cant comment directly for Nozawa as am yet to get there but I've ridden quiet a lot of new to me resorts by myself and slowly work into them after arriving. Scoping out lines close to runs where its apparent safe egress can be made if it goes wrong, hitting them then pushing further into that area, always with an eye to riding out. I've had unexpected hike outs and they can be tough! Then on other lines I've seen try meeting folks on the lifts and then riding with them or waiting where guys are dropping into an area, sussing it out how hard it is and asking if you can join that group if you think its something for you. Just basic common sense I guess and Im most likely preaching to the converted. I also apologise is that sounds condescending, its not meant that way. NEVER follow a single board track into the unknown though, you may find me hiking back out.

 

Avalanches are not your only concerns. You may not have ridden in snow as deep as here either after a big dump, it can be a real game changer and quiet a worry when you are stuck in deep pow - especailly by yourself. When booting it out of an area on Happo once I fell through to just over chest deep and only having my borad buried in the snow above me saved me from deeper than that. Unless you have the correct skis or board, riding off piste is not smart. Hire fatties if you have to if you ski.

 

You can also prep by carrying a few things in your jacket like a fully charged mob phone with the resort phone numbers and your accom's. A loud as #### whilstle on your jacket zip is also handy to have. A back pack with an extra layer, spare dry gloves, hyrdaration system etc and search youtube on how to build a snow cave. A couple years ago there was a frantic search for a westerner who ended up spending a night out in a cave on a resort area if I recall correctly- cant recall which one though. He survived in the cave, no idea what would have happened if not.

 

I know the above is somewhat overly precautionary in a sense and most probably something you already know but others in a smilar situation will most probably read this and Id rather they not learn the same mistakes I've made the hard way.

 

There is a crew called BC Nozawa that do tours, they are on Facebook so you maybe you can contact them that way. I camt provide any comment on how good they are though as havent personally used them. It might be a great way to spend a day in relative safety though.

 

If it dumps whilst you are there you may have some of the best riding of your life. Its what keeps so many of us coming back to Japan year after year and for some has led to moving here fulltime. I dont know anyone that has been here once that doesnt have plans to return, again and again

[CnnmnSchnpps 0]

When exactly are you going? This season or next year? If this season, it's worth checking the avalanche us forum on this site for a few recent reports. Pretty sketchy out there at the moment

 

After a good dump Yamabiko area is pretty epic. The stuff under the top lift is fair game but do be aware of gullies where you might get stuck.

 

Anything outside of the resort boundaries is backcountry. Gear, friends, and knowledge required. There are some pretty big lines in Noz which are totally unforgiving. Even assuming you make smart terrain choices yourself, it only takes one park rat to trigger something from above to ruin you day.

 

Having said that, there is some really good terrain out there and there are guide to take you. The ski school runs tours (in Japanese) too - at least they did 2 yrs ago

[gerard 6]

Jokemaker, if you can get basic avi gear you might be able to hook up with people at the resort or even on the mountain. It's hard to get cliffed out or lost at Nozawa once you know your way around a little and it's well-worth it. I really like that place.

[jokemaker323 0]

I just wanted to update that I had an amazing time. I really enjoyed the town and the skiing and snow was totally great. It was good snow and then great snow with some sunshine in between. As for my back country worries, I'm not entirely sure if we did anything dumb but we had a blast. The stuff under the Yamibiko chair was definitely fun and felt totally safe as well as some other trees that were right in between pistes or under lifts. I'm not really sure if it was totally stupid or not but our best runs were getting off the top Yamibiko lift and following a few people straight off the lift, under the rope, and into the back bowl over there. Yesterday with the big dump we didn't feel comfortable going there but the day before when it was sunny and the snow was relatively settled we had a great time skiing over there. I want to tell myself we didn't do anything idiotic but I'm not that sure.

 

All and all this mini trip inspired me to want to spend a hell of a lot more time checking out the skiing in this country and hopefully I can get some better back country education to ease some of my stresses. It's just so damn fun to be out there that being ignorant of judging risk feels so pathetic.

 

I also just want to thank everyone again for their input. It has been great.

[panhead_pete 27]

Thanks for the update, stoked you had a good time. Sounds like its time to buy a beacon, probe, shovel, pack, do a 2 day avie course before heading out witn experienced crew. Wanting to step it up this year I just went through that but will do the course as my 1st two days next year as couldnt coordinate it this time around. What I've found is most groups wont ride with you unless you have the basic stuff anyway as you cant help them in a rescue situation. I feel the same now actaully but please note that Im hyper cautious. LOTS of avies this year (probably most years) and got to watch one of the Swedes I was hanging with get buried via GoPro footage. Have fun and be safe

[Slippery Jim 65]

So...you're ``not sure'' if ducking a rope is stupid?

[jokemaker323 0]

Correct, I'm not sure. Are you implying skiing on the other side of ropes is always idiotic? I'm not sure where you are from, but where I come from ropes are all over the place and often designed to absolve the resort of responsibility beyond them, regardless of whether there is a serious danger on the other side. We went to a place many others were going. Does that mean it was safe? No, it doesn't. But the implication that doing so is always stupid is off base. We were prepared to hike back should we feel the conditions warranted it but with so many other skiers and riders and tracks around, it seemed pretty safe.

 

I'm sure many members of this forum who have skied at Nozawa have ducked the exact same rope. I'm open ears if I'm wrong...

[ippy 66]

I can tell you all about that rope if you like. I know exactly what youre talking about, and I was very cautious in avoiding directly mentioning it. Glad you found it, its a great line. But its ****ing dangerous. I'm sure there's more dangerous lines than that one, but in particular the problem with it is that it is do easy to find, and it looks like any standard slack country ride. But its a bit steeper, its got all your standard avalanche hazards - you can easy cause a slide on it, and because its basically a massive slide path its pretty easy to end up in the shit through the fault of people riding the same line above you and dropping the shit on your head (its a pretty popular line as I'm sure you realised, and its popular with people who have no general conception of basic safety), or just simply a cornice dropping off one of the several cliffs just plopping into the path and pulling you down into the trees. Oh yeah, and any slide is pulling you into the trees which Means Youll probably be dead from trauma before you suffocate... and that's really me telling you this, and I know next to nothing. these are just the blindingly obvious issues with it. Honestly, the place is so scary that I rarely touch it. :>

 

Basically it looks like any gate run, which makes people let their guard down and treat it like they're riding a nice safe on piste line, but its proper back country. Treat it like back country and ride constantly aware of everyone else riding it and you'll be fine. Treat it like sideountry gates, or an on piste ungroomed run and youre rolling the dice.

 

That all being said, if you can hit that line and dont find it tough as a line, then you're clearly at the point where the back country is going to start looking more of a possibility in which case it might honestly be worth listening to pete and start looking at the gears and BC education. Its definitely a worthwhile investment.

[Slippery Jim 65]

You're not ``where you come from.''

You don't know the area, or the terrain.

You've no idea who you're following.

You don't know if there's danger, to yourself or to others.

And you're still not sure it was stupid?

[jokemaker323 0]

I can tell you all about that rope if you like. I know exactly what youre talking about, and I was very cautious in avoiding directly mentioning it. Glad you found it, its a great line. But its ****ing dangerous. I'm sure there's more dangerous lines than that one, but in particular the problem with it is that it is do easy to find, and it looks like any standard slack country ride. But its a bit steeper, its got all your standard avalanche hazards - you can easy cause a slide on it, and because its basically a massive slide path its pretty easy to end up in the shit through the fault of people riding the same line above you and dropping the shit on your head (its a pretty popular line as I'm sure you realised, and its popular with people who have no general conception of basic safety), or just simply a cornice dropping off one of the several cliffs just plopping into the path and pulling you down into the trees. Oh yeah, and any slide is pulling you into the trees which Means Youll probably be dead from trauma before you suffocate... and that's really me telling you this, and I know next to nothing. these are just the blindingly obvious issues with it. Honestly, the place is so scary that I rarely touch it. :>

 

Basically it looks like any gate run, which makes people let their guard down and treat it like they're riding a nice safe on piste line, but its proper back country. Treat it like back country and ride constantly aware of everyone else riding it and you'll be fine. Treat it like sideountry gates, or an on piste ungroomed run and youre rolling the dice.

 

That all being said, if you can hit that line and dont find it tough as a line, then you're clearly at the point where the back country is going to start looking more of a possibility in which case it might honestly be worth listening to pete and start looking at the gears and BC education. Its definitely a worthwhile investment.

 

Have an avi course booked in a month. The skiing has long since been the issue for me. I don't consider myself overly great or anything but I also have spent my life skiing with people who are really damn good and I get by. My biggest fears are of the uncontrollable and not of terrain I can't safely ski down due to skill. I'm going to take this one as a learning lesson. I get a knot in my stomach reading your post and thinking about it. I certainly had it on my mind while skiing there. We took turns and I was constantly paying attention to escape routes but that's not enough. I need to learn how to better judge snow conditions. I've skied with a beacon plenty, but frankly, that feels like a small thing compared to understanding how to assess risk better.

 

I am a bit shocked how many were riding alone at Nozawa and off the pistes in such deep snow. To me, that just seems crazy. I mean it is so easy to get stuck or hurt and have no one around to help you on top of all the obvious hazards. I hate that these things exist with skiing but they do and it's best to know what you are in for. Now that this kind of skiing is so popular, I think Nozawa really ought to consider helping people out in the lift-accessible back country. I think it istime for them to be responsible and just put up an avi scale each day. This whole sex education via teaching abstinence is dangerous. People are there and they know it. Their back country is a big part of their future as a resort and providing skiers with useful information would be quite reasonable. The board could be pretty simple: "Don't ski here unless you know what you are doing, have x, y, z and have looked at the daily report". Next to that is the scale of avi risk for that day. Not so difficult. Not many ignorant skiers will wander past a sign that has the same days date on it and says avalanche risk high. I know that I would never go skiing where the danger was 3,4, or 5. When dozens of people are going there and it says nothing it can too easily seem relatively safe. I also don't fully understand why they don't just control for avi's there. It isn't that vast of terrain they'd need to handle...

[Tubby Beaver 209]

You're new to Japan, eh?

 

You are right, but Japanese resorts don't manage their terrain like European or nth American resorts.....why? Because they just don't. Change happens slowly over here and it'll only happen at the behest of the Japanese, not a bunch of Gaij on a forum, however legitimate their claims are

[jokemaker323 0]

Maybe not, but the ski industry is suffering here. Satisfying market demand might be motivation enough for changes to happen faster than normal.

[surfarthur 22]

Yeah, but at the end of the day it will be up to the owners of the resort to implement whatever policy they feel is best for their resort.

 

FWIW, following other peoples tracks and not knowing exactly what type of terrain you are going to end up in, or how far you might have to hike to get back to the resort is a pretty dumb idea.