Child care costs + other social stuff

[BagOfCrisps 24]

My mate earns a modest 35,000 pounds. That may be a lot to some people, but in London it sure ain't making you in any way wealthy. Far from it. But it is pretty much in the so called "middle class" bracket here in the UK which is frankly silly when you consider how much that gets you when you live around London.

 

Anyway because of this, he has been quoted silly costs of up to 1000 pounds a month for full time child care for his child.

 

At the same time, some professionally unemployed bozos who don't even properly try to get themselves working can get the same for exactly nothing.

 

What's wrong with this picture?

 

Does nonsense like this go on in Japan, or indeed other countries? Or are we just more screwed up than others.

[grungy-gonads 54]

Almost makes you want to stop working and doss about.

Some of the stories you hear are alarming. And probably bull as well, though as this is your friend it's a good real one to hear.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

It certainly never paid for me to work and stick the kids in child care.

I tried it for a while - was costing me to go to work when you considered the need for convenience food rather than shopping around and cooking from scratch, and the need for a decent work wardrobe vs jeans and tee shirts etc.

 

A private arrangement a couple of days a week with a friend who was a registered home day carer worked better.

 

And having the kids at school and old enough to look after themselves is even better still

[NoFakie 45]

Britain is now really weird when it comes wealth and earnings and what income is what class for where you live. Due to ridiculous house prices there a lots of people in houses worth huge amounts of money but far far fewer earners who could actually afford to buy one of them assuming they don't have masses of equity from another house.

 

This might be a little out of date but it says your mate earns more than 75% of earners. Given the super high cost of living in the south east, I'm not suggesting jumping for joy or a celebratory pint, but I guess it does mean he is middle class by income.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

With 35k income, there won't be much you can buy in London if you're not on the housing ladder. No places you'd expect a top 25% earner to have anyway.

 

I dunno if unemployed people get child care, but what they need it for is anyone's guess.

[Nisoko 6]

Originally Posted By: Mr Wiggles

I dunno if unemployed people get child care, but what they need it for is anyone's guess.

Well, they need to be able to go down the pub and chippie without having to be bothered by the kids. All 8 of them, plus another on the way, of course.

[Go Native 70]

Until we finished working recently we have had our daughter in day care. We had her in a private day care school and it cost Y58,000 per month. This was for her being there from 8am to 6pm Mon-Fri. I thought it was incredibly cheap and the care was excellent. Couldn't have been happier with it.

[grungy-gonads 54]

A thousand quids a month?!

 

[Mintyjulep 0]

wow, we complain about the cost of daycare in NZ if it's over $200/week

[bobby12 0]

We used to use Japanese youchien when my son was 3, it was like a school really - very big, full time hours, they even took them for half day on saturdays too. That cost only 15000yen a month or so if I remember rightly. I think that is available for 2 years until they start regular Japanese school which is free.

 

So it is quite cheap here, however in Tokyo it is difficult to get into the youchiens because of too many people.

 

re. UK: yes it is totally messed up but the Tories are starting to sort it out. There is plenty of work needs doing in the UK, look around the filthy streets or public facilities to see that, just everyone thinks they are above manual labour and deserve a celeb lifestyle.

[NoFakie 45]

In Japan, basically there is hoikuen (daycare, public, starts very young) and youchien (pre-school, private, starts for kids who are three on April 1st).

 

Daycare for under threes in particular can be relatively expensive. The cost is means tested. GoNative sounds like they are paying full whack, which is over 50000 yen a month. With a low or cash-in-hand income it can fall to 15000 or so. After three years old, the cost is usually under 30,000 a month, posher youchien in big cities aside perhaps. Childcare availability varies greatly from place to place. Since the hours are longer, means testing makes it cheaper, and it starts younger, there is more pressure on hoikuen than youchien. Youchiens are supposed to be preschools and are managed by the Ministry of Education, but in reality a lot of the mothers will work, making youchiens effectively daycare too.

 

Since I work at home, my chances of getting my youngest into under three childcare are zero.

 

Japanese spending on little uns in particular is well below most countries. Well that's what the OECD say anyway.

 

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/21/23/43590152.pdf

[Go Native 70]

We had our daughter in day care since she was 6 months old. The cost wasn't more because of her age though. The private centre we sent her to just had a flat rate per month. There was only ever up to about 10 kids and they had excellent care including many cool activities and better food than she'd normally get at home! We could have put her in the public day care centre nearby but I don't believe the care would have been anywhere near as good and we probably only would have saved Y20-30,000 per month which is nothing (for us anyway ).

[NoFakie 45]

With public ones the cost is definitely more for under threes (mimanji). Generally 20000 yen more a month than for over threes. Income dependent though.

 

The private youchien in Hakuba is about 28000 a month and is full time, but starts at three. Two classes of 17 or so per class per year. My daughter loves it and we've no complaints, but it starts at three (or in my son's case, three years and fifty weeks). Some ladies want/need to work before then.

[Mantas 3]

My wife works in child care here in oz. it's very heavily subsidised by the government now, but it hasn't always been that way.

 

Just the other day she told me about a nicely dressed women who moved from Sydney's northern beaches and drops off her daughter in a swanky BMW. She gets 100% rebate and pays about $10/day.

 

Brits need to start making some noise about this.

[grungy-gonads 54]

Is that because of those subsidies Mantas, and available for anyone?

[Mantas 3]

It's all income tested. I'm guessing that the woman was self employed and a had a low income on paper.

 

There are a few factors that prompted the goverment to change the cost of child care.

 

Australia has a huge skills shortage and because women are now having babies in thier thirties, employers were losing skilled workers with 10-20 years experience.

 

Also we have a negative population growth. One of the reasons why we have the highest annual intake of immigants, which brings it's own set of problems.

( I mean why would you import foriegn skill when it's already sitting at home drinking coffee and watching Oprah )

 

[bobby12 0]

Just my opinion based on a few business trips there, but Australia is massively under populated and it could really benefit by increasing immigration much more. I noticed people there are quite openly racist (this is just based on my personal experiences but other people have said the same thing to me) so I think it may be difficult for the government to increase immigration much more.

[Mantas 3]

Originally Posted By: bobby12

Australia is massively under populated and it could really benefit by increasing immigration much more.

Or is everywhere else massively overpopulated?

Australia is one of the most culurally diverse countries in the world, I'm not surprised that you encountered some racism. Especially if your comparing it to life in Japan where, by design, cultural diversity is all but non-existanant. Hence the reason you'll never be offered the equal status as the Japanese.

Don't confuse lack of enthusiasum for immigration with racism. We just don't want to share this place with anyone.

[bobby12 0]

It is totally my subjective opinion, but there is so much empty space that I cant handle it having grown up in London. I feel the same way about the US, I dont think I could ever live there due to its sparseness.

 

re. racism, I just mean people openly being offensive about certain races without any provacation. e.g. taxi driver seeing a black person in the street and starting to off on a monologue about why Africans spend all their time killing each other and black people are genetically unable to live in a civilised fashion. Or colleagues talking about Jappos, refusing to eat any food that isnt british/french or italian, etc. And all this is experience in Sydney/Melbourne, god knows what it is like in the countryside. Everyione has their predujices, but it seemed to me that in oz it is socially acceptable to voice those opinions.

[Mantas 3]

Well I live in the countryside mate and I've never heard a rant like that before. I'm not surprised at all that you heard something like that in Sydney or Melbourne. The great 'melting pots'. Like you say, I think those opinions exist in every western country. Particularly in the UK. Where even the PM has wieghed in with the statement 'Multiculturalism has failed'.

We haven't given up yet.

 

From a personal perspective. One of my boy's mates is from Africa, he is jet black. He surfs, plays footy (he's bloody good too) and gets on well with everyone and he's family is well liked and well respected by the community. Why?

Because they make an effort to assimilate. Not hide away in their little communities, unwilling to even learn how to speak the langauge of their fellow countrymen, let alone try and intergrate. (surfing and footy not actually neccessary)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HelperElfMissy 42]

I'm with you Mantas.

 

Not sure the racist slurs of a Taxi Driver are all that representative of the community at large.

 

I think you will find the reality is as Mantas says - a huge melting pot where those who make an effort to become part of the community are readily accepted and welcomed....and the only resentment and discomfort comes when groups wish to stay isolated and enforce their foreign beliefs and views on the new community.

 

Of course there will always be a minority of close minded racist individuals, but they do not represent the majority.

 

As for being under populated - depends on a nations resources - we have an ongoing issue supplying the population with enough water - unlike London where drought is not not an issue.

[Mantas 3]

Actually, forming the opinion that country people are more racist or backward thinking than their city counterparts is about as pure a form of prejudice as you can get.

[bobby12 0]

my logic is like this:

- they say racism is borne of ignorance.

- ignorance goes hand in hand with lack of exposure to something.

- people in the countryside tend to be less exposed to minorities than people in the city.

 

anyway, i am just speaking from my personal and very limited experience in australia. maybe it was just bad luck who i came in contact with.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

I agree with Bobby. Having spent a year touring all over Australia and having quite a bit of family over there, its definitely more acceptable to voice racist views than it is in the UK. Thats not to say its more racist per se, just that in Oz people don't hang back voicing their slurs in public. It would prob go on behind closed doors in the UK.

[Go Native 70]

Originally Posted By: Mantas

Because they make an effort to assimilate. Not hide away in their little communities, unwilling to even learn how to speak the langauge of their fellow countrymen, let alone try and intergrate. (surfing and footy not actually neccessary)

I really dislike the idea of 'assimilation'. To me it defeats the great benefits of multiculturalism. I don't want people assimilating as I want them to retain their cultural differences. What I want is for them to integrate. Bit like what many of us foreigners living in the Niseko area have done. We haven't turned Japanese, we retain most of the cultural traits of where we are from but we are part of the community nontheless. We've bought houses, bought cars, we pay our taxes, our kids go to local schools, etc, etc.

In Australia we've had pretty defined waves of immigration over the years, usually after wars. It all started in the gold rush days with a big influx of Chinese and mostly northern Europeans. After WWII there were the Italians and Greeks. After the Vietnam war there was the Vietnamese. There's been those from the Balkans, Lebanon, Iraq, etc, etc. The initial wave generally speak little english and will often remain within communities that support them without ever learning the language incredibly well. I have no problem with this. Their kids though go to school, learn the language and start moving out. The next generation are about as integrated into society as much as anyone whose roots go back for many generations.

There's definitely a considerable amount of racism in Australia (our English roots probably don't help with that ) but I think on the whole multiculturalism has worked well and continues to work well. It does take good leadership though to promote tolerance and understanding. The previous conservative government in Australia used racism, fear and division for it's own political purposes which didn't help one little bit. There's still quite a legacy from their unfortunately long time in power.

[Mantas 3]

 

 

I have just spent the day in the lovely metropolis of Sydney (yes us country bumkins do venture there occasionally) and Jeez... how many flavours of race do you want to see?

When looking for a bite to eat driving home through the suburbs, the choices were endless, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Malaysian, Indian, Italian, Greek, Lebanese.... not that I like English/Aussie fair that much but I'd be hard pressed to find any if I did.

 

BTW. I have a solution to the UK's Multicultural failure.

Prince Harry needs to marry a Pakistani. I wouldn't put it past the plucky little bugger.