Buying a house in Japan

[gerard 6]

....So there are a couple of people on here I think who have houses in Japan. We're thinking about 3 options at the moment:

1. Buy a used house (could be hard to find what we want)

2. Buy an 'Aifull' or 'Daiwa' house or something like that(they actually seem fairly decent but expensive)

3. Get a contractor and ship material from Canada to build a more custom built home.

 

Any thoughts or advice?

[bobby12 0]

debito.org has a lot of info about it. basically it is a nightmare.

[Hotaka Scott 0]

ger - won't be of much help to you here but Mrs Hotaka and I are in the same boat. Told her only 3 more years in the apartment (max). Hope this thread gets some replies.

 

The Japan Times had a decent article about buying a house a few months ago. I'll see if I can't find it.

[stemik 14]

we bought our house 2 years ago....i was surprised how simple it was.

We werent even in the country when we bought!

 

for your options it all depends on budget, but i would suggest try number 3 - there are numerous J-magazines that help you find the type of house you are looking for espcecially imported homes.

Broaden your horizons and dont just limit to canadian homes (though very good rep) have a look at east europe and asia ones.

[NoFakie 45]

Nah, its not a nightmare.

 

As an extension of number 2, you could ask a local housebuilder (komuten) to build you a place, or hire an architect to design something and then put it out to tender. The big housemakers may get volume discounts on materials, but they also have lots of dedicated sales staff, showhouses, and tv adverts to pay for, and all that money must come from their customers. Even if you buy a Aifull home, it may well be a local subcontractor that actually builds it. If you go to them direct, they may well recycle an Aifull design for you, assuming that's what you want.

 

Hiring an architect costs more than just using a builder, but he/she will inspect the build for you. There are no building inspections in Japan, so building is a massive act of faith in your builder. Some architects do "open system" where you can subcontract every trade out yourself to see where the money is going.

 

If you go imported, make sure the thing has a track record in Japan. Canada's climate is way different to Japan's. Some, not all, approaches will work here. Humidity can do nasty things to timber houses.

 

Buying an old place and renovating it within the limits of "kaichiku" will get you the lowest tax bill. We completely gutted our place, so it ended up as a new build. During our build, no inspectors came to check on the work, but the tax man said he looked at it "several times". That's how much the government cares about you.

 

Compared to the houses advertised on the telly, I'd rather have something like this. Modern but still kind of Japanese/Asian. It looks much better than that bright yellow thing Debito has/had. Many builders and architects could knock up something similar if you asked.

 

http://www.bess.jp/products/jh/index.html

 

My favourite magazine about building with natural local materials in Japan is here. You get some really nice places in it.

 

http://www.fudosha.com/

[2pints-mate 0]

I can't imagine buying a house is easy anywhere in the world....

[gerard 6]

Great info so far. Cheers! We're just at the early stages of planning.... My wife is looking at local real estate magazines which have a lot of used houses and empty lots. Friends of ours bought a lot and hooked up with an architect and a foreigner contractor (living in Japan) and basically built a Canadian house. They say they saved a lot of money since my friend basically put in and finished all of the floors and walls. It looks great and the windows and such look really sturdy but I really do wonder how it will hold up in Japanese humidity as the years go by. ....Then we went into an Aifull model home. (That word looks a lot like 'Awful' come to think of it.) Model homes are designed to the smallest detail to make you fall in love at first sight of course but we're not a couple of suckers. It takes more than a big kitchen, Swedish furniture and Norah Jones playing over a hidden stereo to sway us over to the dark side. But it did look awfully nice compared to the dormitory that we're living in now and it seemed like a pretty solid structure.

But anyway, doing something a little more unique would probably be more satisfying.

[Hotaka Scott 0]

Found it: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20080928x3.html

 

Also in addition to Mr Wiggles suggestion of Bess, there's a few others that do sort-of log style houses:

http://www.talo.co.jp/index.html

http://www.fin-bigbox.com/

and kiitos , but the link doesn't seem to be working.

 

Had a look at a couple model homes from Bess in Kanazawa (Ishikawa) - very impressive.

[KRUSTY 2]

Some pretty good deals on foreclosed homes in Japan. Went for a drive with a Real Estate agent(well I think he was one but was introduced by a friend and seemed dodgy) and pulled up outside houses that people had lost due to being unable to pay back there loans. Couldnt go inside as the people were still living there but most of the houses didnt interest me anyway. A Japanese friend bought a "forclosed" house a few years back and it was only 3 years old but much cheaper than new.

[Go Native 70]

We bought our house for even less than the land value (based on the Yakuba valuation) because the previous owner expected we would knock the old place down and took the cost of this off the price.

Instead we gutted it and did pretty much all the reno ourselves. Turned 3 rooms downstairs into one open plan living/dining area (I love knocking down walls). We replaced all the windows and put in all new doors (big enough for a 6ft gaijin). We also had the entire exterior re-clad. Got the whole place re-plumbed and wired including a new unit bathroom. Not sure if I was meant to get any sort of approval to do all the alterations but I never did and haven't had a problem. Anyway after a lot of work, ended up with a very nice and cheap place. Got an industrial oven/cooktop installed too which I'm sure many of you would appreciate is an absolute luxury in Japan. Nothing like cooking up a good roast.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

Wow GN sounds like you have got a real nce place!! Yep I miss an actual oven (how fairy is that!! ), cooking up real food. also miss doors that don't take 3 layers of skin off when I walk through......I knew Japanese people were small but THAT small??!! Although I'm not in a position to do this now, it is a small idea in my head for the future so I'm def interested in what this thread throws up

[NoFakie 45]

Its not industrial, but we've got a built-in oven. Its by AEG and I got it for 100,000 new on Yahoo Auctions. You can pick up stuff on there sometimes much cheaper than retail. Our cooktop is a four-ring IH hob, also by AEG. It was quite expensive, but it saved us a fair bit because we didn't have to get the house hooked up to gas. If you've got an old house and can fireproof it sufficiently, second-hand commercial kitchen appliances are pretty cheap and rock solid. Your kids will not break stainless steel.

 

As for Ger, you can have whatever you want. Make a list, find out how much it would cost, and basically drop the things that are more wants than needs according to your budget. If you don't like unit bathrooms or fitted kitchens for example, don't get one. If you have a favourite restaurant or posh izakaya or retreat somewhere with an atmosphere you like, take some photos or take an architect there and say "this is what we like". A scrapbook of photos of other houses in magazines or books is a good thing to have too. You don't have to be limited to what is in some housemaker's catalogue.

 

I've been to the Bess showroom in Nagano back when the company was called Big Foot. I think the log houses they do are on the pricey side, though I'm not a big fan of log homes anyway. That "hodohodo" post and beam design is quite nice though. More than anything, its an easy to understand example of something that is clearly different to a typical Sekusui House-type home. My main message would be that you can have whatever you want starting from a blank sheet of paper. Provided its within budget of course.

 

PS. That's a really good article in the Japan Times. It makes lots of great points. I'd only add that tateuri houses have a rep for using low quality materials and to watch out for sick house syndrome, especially if you or your missus already suffer from asthma or allergies. For old Japanese houses, watch out for asbestos. Don't assume that it was banned or phased out decades ago like in other countries.

 

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/fl20010729a1.html

[Hotaka Scott 0]

Just wanted to bump this back to page 1 for another run to see if it gets any more hits. Some good advice thus far though from those in the know.

[rach 1]

I might be interested if I knew what my future held.

Right now, I know not.

 

Interesting stuff though.

[gerard 6]

Well, we have a specific area where we want to live and their aren't many used houses that appeal to us but there are many lots and new developments. Actually we have a specific lot in mind and there's also a specific house model by a local contractor that would suit the lot very well with some minor changes.

 

I don't know... It seems like a big decision to rush into but on the other hand, everybody we know who has spent a long time looking at houses and land has said "Yeah, by the end of it we were just so sick of looking at houses that we just took this one". It doesn't seem like spending a long time looking = getting a better deal or house. I guess the next step would be to investigate the local developers to see if they have good reputations and see if there are other ways to build the house at a cheaper cost but equal quality.

 

Of course, a new house is expensive and it seems like "New" is a brand name in itself in Japan (like the Japan Times artical says) and I've always thought that people who go nuts over brand names are a bunch of suckers....

[Go Native 70]

One main thing to remember is that in most areas of Japan a house is not really an investment. If anything it will likely devalue over the years. At the end of the day we had the money, didn't need a loan (not that we could get one anyway), and so we don't have to pay rent. Basically I think I'm only likely to get my money back if I resell my place to another foreigner. I'd likely lose significant amounts if I sold it to locals although this would be offset by not having to pay rent all these years.

[bobby12 0]

I think better to avoid buying a house in Japan unless you are certain you wont need to resell it (ie. kids are young but settled, family is nearby, secure job etc). As said above, it is not an investment here in the way it has been traditionally in the UK because of the poor quality of the houses and low/zero inflation.

[NoFakie 45]

Originally Posted By: ger

I don't know... It seems like a big decision to rush into but on the other hand, everybody we know who has spent a long time looking at houses and land has said "Yeah, by the end of it we were just so sick of looking at houses that we just took this one". It doesn't seem like spending a long time looking = getting a better deal or house. I guess the next step would be to investigate the local developers to see if they have good reputations and see if there are other ways to build the house at a cheaper cost but equal quality.

Dealing with Japanese real estate people is well tiring. I can well understand people doing as you say, especially if they don't actually have strong likes and dislikes. With a lot of the housemaker houses, let's face it, the mainstream, the differences will be splitting hairs.

We spent ages planning and overseeing our place, but we really like the results. In hindsight, it was definitely worth it. To save money and get what we wanted, I ordered a lot of things online. All the light fittings, the front door, all the sinks and taps, the bathtub (its a Japanese wooden one), the woodstove, the kitchen, a load of tiles, etc. All that took a lot of time though, and I'm sure this level of client involvement would would really piss some builders off.

Anyway, here are a couple of builders in Shikoku featured in the Chilchinbito magazine I like. Again the focus of the magazine is on local, natural materials, like solid wooden flooring and natural plaster on the walls . With a housemaker house, its normally laminated floors and vinyl wallpaper. That's what you might have seen in houses you've rented too, but when it comes to building, its your choice. You can have whatever you want.

http://e-nishibuchi.co.jp/index.htm

http://www.kondo-kougei.com/

[stemik 14]

Mr. Wiggles - your house is very special....how long did it take you to plan it all.

Did you have any second doubts?

[gerard 6]

The houses in those links are works of art. There's lots to look at. We definitely hope to get something reasonably compact though. We need to use space efficiently if we're paying upwards of 27 man / tsubo.

[Hotaka Scott 0]

Great links Mr Wiggles - this thread is turning gold.

 

And good luck with the house quest, ger.

[NoFakie 45]

Here's a builder from Nagano also featured in the Chilchinbito magazine. Pretty similar design to the last ones. Not the cheapest thing going, but maybe not so different pricewise to Sekisui, Hebel House etc. for much high quality.

 

http://www.a-def.com/jirei_new/jirei.html

 

If you're thinking of going with a low-cost housemaker like Tama Home, try and find out how much the true price is. I know they say 25 man a tsubo on the tv adverts, but that is not going to be the final cost that includes everything. I reckon once your services are hooked up and the taxes are paid, they'll come in at 35 man a tsubo minimum for the most basic model on the easiest possible site. More too for a small house where there are fewer tsubo to divide out the cost of expensive bits like the bathroom, water heater, and kitchen. Even 40 man a tsubo is still very cheap, and it would be fine if they didn't give people unrealistic expectations in the first place. I think large sections of the housebuilding industry in Japan are running on bait and switch. If you can read Japanese, have a look at this website. I don't know what the guy is selling, but he talks a lot of sense.

 

http://hmk-polaris.web.infoseek.co.jp/housemaker.html

 

If the real price is 40 a tsubo, that imported house with a higher spec and an honest quote at 50 a tsubo might suddenly seem like better value.

 

Stemik

It took about a year and four months from finding our place to moving in, but that includes two winters. It wasn't finished when we moved in, and parts of it aren't even finished now a year later! But to quote MC Hammer, "Yeah, its all good!"

[Myoko Guy 0]

It's not that difficult a deal, at least if you're not building the place new. We have been going through the process of getting ready to buy but just can't find the right place at the right deal. Got close on one, signed a contract and then found out there was a crack in the retaining wall. But the agent was good, was getting us through all the paperwork and the split was amicable when we both realised there'd been a mistake made (one partner forgot to tell another partner...)

 

A mate bought an architect designed place last year. About 5yo and cost 60 mill to build. He picked it up for 25 mill!

 

And as has been said before property in Japan is not an investment, unless you buy a block of condos that is returning 20% p.a. You have to do your sums and be prepared to sit tight for a long time.

[Ocean11 0]

Hi ger,

 

I strongly recommend that you don't bother looking at Aifull and stuff like that. A friend of ours was building a Tama home at the same time that we were getting a Canadian home built, and as our builder was very carefully stuffing great wads of insulation in absolutely everywhere, our friend's builder was gaily stapling what looked like sanitary pads in a most eccentric pattern here ... and ... there.

 

Gosh, I hope it doesn't ever cold where they live. Or hot.

 

We got a Selco Home http://selcohome.jp/ from Canadia, and if you want to know how their houses hold up in our climate, ask them. They'll tell you.

[gerard 6]

Haven't seen you around in a while, O11. Thanks for the link! We've been in contact with a local contractor but basically not sure about anything. They would be able to put in full-on insulation as it's a two-by-four house but everything would cost extra of course and we've still got all our doors open. Actually, what we're looking at is a three story house. The bottom story is mostly a garage which we would convert into a reck room/work room. Maybe even soundproof it so that I can jam with my boy once he takes up the drums.

 

 

 

Anyway, tons or questions. Too many to ask. But one comes to mind off the top of my head:

What's with all the generic wallpaper that people have? Why doesn't anyone seem to paint their walls?