I-Am-Patrol 0 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 "nihon no kokoro" How would you say this phrase in English? Link to post Share on other sites
woywoy 0 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 "The heart of Japan"? "The soul of Japan"? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 More to the point, why would you say that phrase in English? Link to post Share on other sites
I-Am-Patrol 0 Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 A friend asked me the meaning and I found difficult to explain. So I am interested in knowing what people say. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
woywoy 0 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I thought that I-Am-Patrol was going to give us a lecture on how foreigners don't understand "Nihon no kokoro"!!! Link to post Share on other sites
rach 1 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 You do seem to hear that phrase a lot. I can't imagine saying something like that back home in English. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Down at the supermarket, I saw the latest in those serialized magazine book things, "100 Famous Japanese". Issue 4 is Hideki Tojo. After a "War criminal? Victors' justice!" leader on the cover, the second page steams in with the "Fiercely patrotic - the Japanese spirit (Nihon seishin)". The sooner people forget about nihonjinron, the better. Link to post Share on other sites
big-will 7 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Mr Wiggles, what exactly is "nihonjinron"? Link to post Share on other sites
gamera 0 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I guess something like " How Japanese should be". Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 nihonjinron is the popular theory (spouted as fact) that the Japanese are unique from all other people and cultures. Backed up by scientific "fact" such as that they have a longer intestine. Was very popular post war and has really taken an imbedded hold in the Japanese psyche. Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Nihonjinron's quite out of fashion in modern Japan but Westerners are still having a field day with it. I wonder why.. Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 given the recent anticts of Japanese Minister of Foreign Affairs Taro (Facist) Aso, and with the raising trend in extreme nationalism extending as high up as the prime minister himself, do you really have to ask why? Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 English media likes to paint Japan with a broad stroke of nationalism for some reason. Only the Koreans and the Chinese are overtly negative towards Japan, but they have their own nationalism and financial incentive (ODAs) to retain this status quo. If there was a rising trend in "extreme nationalism", shouldn't other neighbours be worried as well? It appears that the Koreas and China are the exception, not Japan. http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/bbcpoll06-3.html Link to post Share on other sites
igloo 3 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Do a search and you&'ll find a fair bit if reading about nihonjinron. Here's some http://junana.com/CDP/corpus/GLOSSARY18.html Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 out of fashion?? What, you don't still come up against opinions that Japanese language is intrinsically more difficult than other languages, that there is something inherently different and special about Japan and its people, etc. etc.?? I certainly still bump up against this from time to time. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Kyoto still has a lot of right wing trucks and right wing stores as well. If you go a few days without seeing a truck its a good few days. Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Just because white supremacists exist doesn't mean that the US is under an extremely racist grip at the moment, just because there were the Sydney race riots doesn't mean that Aussies are waging massive race wars, etc. Just a matter of perspective. Ha, it's funny how the wikipedia nihonjinron pages differ between Japanese and English. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E4%BA%BA%E8%AB%96 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonjinron Whenever I encounter a nihonjinron-ish statement from people though, I either laugh or point out the logical fallacy. This doesn't mean that nihonjinron is being taught in schools and stuff though. This shows how nihonjinron is viewed among each community, at least up to an extent. Wikipedia is just as reliable as typical encyclopedias (which aren't error free either), btw. Just have to be careful about completely trusting any source. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/full/438900a.html Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Just because it isn't taught doesn't mean there isn't an underlying tendency towards elements of it though does it Number 9? How many times have you heard the old line "Ware ware nihonjin..." followed by some explanation of why what you are doing or saying can be simply attributed to the fact that you are a foreigner and they are Japanese? I hear it on occasions (admittedly not all the time). So I think it does still remain on a certain level in how many Japanese people think. This is getting a little off topic though. Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by number9: Nihonjinron's quite out of fashion in modern Japan but Westerners are still having a field day with it. I wonder why.. That's an easy one. It's because Japanese people keep going on about "nihon no kokoro", as witnessed by this thread. Entertaining though they may be to some, idiotic comments about intenstines or snow quality are not the problem. Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Quote: How many times have you heard the old line "Ware ware nihonjin..." followed by some explanation of why what you are doing or saying can be simply attributed to the fact that you are a foreigner and they are Japanese? Hardly ever. Though this might have more to do with the urban/rural divide than anything else. Japanese countrysides are at least a couple of decades behind Tokyo in terms of social norms, for better or for worse. And this probably applies to Nihonjinron in general. You're more likely to hear it from old rural farts than young citydwellers. But that's pretty similar to xenophobia around the world. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 >Hardly ever. Though this might have more to do with the urban/rural divide than anything else. Japanese countrysides are at least a couple of decades behind Tokyo in terms of social norms, for better or for worse... Disagree, Ive heard it the same whether it was Hiroshima, Hokkaido, or now Kansai. And like Bushpig said its not like its often but do hear it. Number 9, could that be because youre half-Japanese (is that right?) that you dont hear that because they look at you as a Japanese rather than as a gaijin? Essentially since your Japanese is presumably native level they wouldnt think youre a foreigner right? (my assumption...) > You're more likely to hear it from old rural farts than young citydwellers. That could be true but what I do agree with is that its generally older people who do say that rather than the younger people. Lets reading Laficido Hearn's kokoro!!! Link to post Share on other sites
number9 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 No, no one can usually tell that I'm part Japanese because of the way I look. And this goes for supposedly multiculturally sensitive Westerners too. I get both Japanese and foreigners bluntly saying "but you don't look Japanese", yeah real nice Kansai, yes. But Hiroshima and Sapporo.. they have fair sized populations, but that doesn't prevent them from having village mentalities. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 regardless of whether Hiroshima and Sapporo have village mentalities, CB did just say he gets that occasionally in Kansai too right? Number 9, I agree that it might not be something that is pushed in education or whatever anymore, but I still maintain that I think it does remain on a certain subconscious level in the spyche of some Japanese (I'll concede that some might be more accurate than many). Of course, I know a hell of a lot of Japanese people who hold no shred of that thinking too. I guess what I am arguing about is that I don't think it is just something that remains only amongst westerners who have a "field day with it". I have met too many people here who have spouted off some view or other which at least stems from the basic ideas of nihonjinron (whether concsciously or not). Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 If there was a rising trend in "extreme nationalism", shouldn't other neighbours be worried as well? It appears that the Koreas and China are the exception, not Japan. Perhaps that is because Korea and China both suffered brutal atrocities at the hands of the Japanese, and Japan has never really reconciled with its war time past? Can you imagine how the world would react if Germany took the same stance regarding its war time past? As for nobody else being concerned, the New York Times editorial from Monday February 13th addresses this very issue. And like I said, Amnesty International and The United Nations have in the past made commentary regarding this issue and many others. You might remember the criticism that the Koizumi Government received recently when it debated altering Article 24 in the constitution in order to limit the rights of women. Perhaps you will remember Koizumi's retort to the minister of labour regarding the revitalization of Japan's dewindling work force with foreign labour: "Conflicts inevitably occur when foreign workers increase to a certain level," Koizumi told a House of Representatives Budget Committee session. "The idea of supplementing labor shortages with foreign workers should be carefully considered." He stressed that a number of undocumented immigrants are already in Japan and that such people tend to find it hard to get a job due to their illegal status, so they could end up getting involved in crime to earn money but escape justice. Yes conservative nationalism is on the rise here. I have received my fair share of ignorance living here, in every place I have ever been. I personally want to believe however that these sentiments are oppinions of the few and not the vast majority of people here in Japan. Unfortunately they are also the voices of a powerfull few. What bothers me then is the silent exceptance amongst the voting public of the nation. If such ideas were on the out as you say, the public would demand more responsible actions on behave of its representatives and vote the facists out of office. Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 as for the media representation of said ideas, why do you think english media focuses on these things? they are not exceptable for a nation that claims to be amongst the elite of the developed world, and they are issues that must be addressed if the freedom and rights' of all people living here are to be ensured. why do you think that japanese media avoids said issues? Link to post Share on other sites
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