Bilingual kids

[Yuki's Passion 1]

cheers O11 and Mr W. Im still at the point of deciding if I wanna quit teaching and give translation a go. Sometimes to part-time stuff. But, for P.T. there are so many other ways to earn more money much easier and with less time too.

 

Getting level 1 this year might give me more of a nudge to step in that direction.

 

Surely you dont walk around speakin like a chimpira do you?

[grungy-gonads 54]

First time taking level 1 this year Yama?

[Yuki's Passion 1]

No, I took it 2 years ago and got like 64/5% on it and couldnt be ****ed with it last year. Working pretty hard on studyin right now as Id like to pass it and be done with it ya know?

[Davo 1]

Interesting to read all of this. My Japanese is so poor and mangled that I'm not allowed to use it at home. We are trying to speak in English with our girl as much as possible. I don't really expect her to be bilingual as such, but I do hope she can understand me. I will, of course, have to get more serious about learning Japanese to keep up with her though.

 

Unless we leave Japan she'll keep developing as a Japanese speaking Japanese girl and there's no reason for me to put pressure on her to be otherwise. The pressure will come if we go back home and she has to go to Japanese school every Saturday. Then we'll also be trying to speak Japanese at home as she'll quickly turn into a kiwi girl speaking English.

 

I think that trying to make the use or comprehension of English fun and meaningful is better than imposing some obligation to be bilingual.

[Snowhaus 0]

Its interesting reading these posts and hearing how everyone stresses so much about teaching their kids to be bilingual. Makes me wonder if any of this was going through my parents minds when I was growing up.

 

For me, growing up bilingual was easy. My parents just packed me off to the grandparents in Osaka every summer holiday from age 5 to 14. 6 weeks every year with old people who speak no English is an incredibly effective way to get a kid to learn Japanese. Particularly once they get hungry. You start with whining, then figure out おなかすいた. Its all up from there.

 

Doesn't seem to work on multiple kids though. As soon as there's one person available to translate, the child doesn't need to rely on their own wits to get anything. Consequently, my brothers (who are 5 years younger) never got beyond おはよう, since they had me to do their work for them.

 

Never spoke Japanese with mum until I was an adult, so it was basically 46 weeks of English and 6 weeks of Japanese a year. I could hold conversations but never bothered learning to read or write. Started studying Japanese formally in Sydney at 15, decided to take level 1 on the JLPT when I was 22 and passed first time round, so something must have stuck.

[scouser 4]

Where were you growing up snowhaus?

[me jane 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Ocean11:
> I would have thought one of the best ways of encouraging kids to use a language would have been to have them out playing with children who speak the same language rather than at home studying.

You mean, choosing your friends for the benefits the language they speak will bring to your children...? Dozo...

No that's not what I meant. I mean that forcing children to stay indoors and study a language thay have no interest in and see no point in learning is not good for anyone. By giving children a chance to use the language in a situation where they understand the need for it, you might make them more enthusiastic about the language and more open to learning it at home.

I can't speak for other people but I personally can't imagine choosing friends on the basis of what languages they speak. I have friends who speak both languages and I would like to give my children the same opportunities. When I have children in Japan, I hope to encourage them to go to an international playgroup in school holidays or weekends giving then the chance to make their own English speaking friends.
I'm not saying that you should choose your children's friends but that parents should have some influence over who their children spend their free time with. I mean you would hardly encourage your children to hang out with children whose parents were of the "couldn't care less" variety.

[soubriquet 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by soubriquet:
Ian Drury. I used to know the sax player (taught me everything I know).

It's all coming back to me now... Mike Payne... How did the song go, sex and drugs and rock and roll?

[Ocean11 0]

sex and drugs and rock and roll

is all my brain and body need

sex and drugs and rock and roll

is very good indeed

keep your silly ways or throw them out the window...

 

I have a 3-CD set of Ian Dury in my car. I still chortle when I listen to it.

 

> I mean you would hardly encourage your children to hang out with children whose parents were of the "couldn't care less" variety.

 

You might actively discourage them from doing so, but they might still like to hang out with them anyway. I used to hang out with the boy down the road whose house pretty much stank all the way up the driveway, and I really resented my parents always telling me how bad and dangerous the whole family were. But it was fun so I kept going there.

 

And unless one of the kids that your kid is playing with doesn't actually speak Japanese, chances are they'll be speaking Japanese anyway - because here is Japan.

[NoFakie 45]

"bilingual" (adjective)

 

a. Using or able to use two languages, especially with equal or nearly equal fluency

 

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition

 

The point about staying in and studying is that how can any older child meet the definition above without some kind of formal, i.e., book-based, study? Educated native level is a very high bar, even for 12-year-old kids. At "bog-standard" comprehensive school, we read "The Hobbit" in class at 12. We were also studying all manner of things and writing reports and essays. That's what native level is. Can you get that level in non-English speaking countries simply from playing with other kids?

 

I speak English to my daughter and have gaijin friends with kids. I'll try teaching her the alphabet and read her books, my folks are dead keen, and all the other normal stuff, but will she be able to use two languages "with equal or nearly equal fluency"? I can't foresee it happening, especially not when she hits school age and starts getting a formal education in one language but not the other. Some people make Herculean efforts or have circumstances that make it happen, so it's certainly not impossible. Sending your kid to an international school, though far from ideal for various reasons, is probably the most reliable way. In our own case, enough words to keep grandma happy is probably the best we can expect if we stay here. Will that level of language "open doors" for her or give her a "deeper understanding" of different cultures? She should get a deep understanding of different cultures simply by having a half-foreign family. Her English will have to be pretty bloody good to make that understanding "deeper".

[Ocean11 0]

"Now everybody's at disadvantage,

Speaking in their second language"

- Spoon "Chicago at Night"

 

(Damned if I know what the song is about, but I always enjoy that line...)

 

A lot of the terms and assumptions used to discuss this issue are laughable when you bother to analyze them, as Mr ~'s post above suggests.

[Snowhaus 0]

Scouser, I spent 0-14 in Hong-Kong, then 15 onwards with Australia as my base, but lived and worked off and on in Europe and Japan since finishing uni.

 

Australia is home, but then, so is Japan.

[woywoy 0]

What do you do in Aomori now then Snowhaus?

[Yuki's Passion 1]

sorry, off topic, but Aomori is beautiful!!!

 

Id love to live in Tohoku

[gamera 0]

As others have said, it's a bit long road to be a "bilingual (Japanese and English for example)" if both of your parents speak only Japanese ( or English ).

Even if you try very hard to study another language, it bothers when you don't have anyone around to talk with in that language - this is how I have been feeling!!!!

 

You can learn grammer by books, learn pronounciation from tapes, but can not learn how to use your lips, mouth and teeth to pronounce words by books and tapes

When I learnt some difficult pronounciation i.e. "th" in books, it was like I was in a maze lol... How can I make this shape!?!?!?

But when I saw native speakers pronounced the words, I learnt how to do like "Ah, that's the way how to do!" - Seeing is believing

[smellyfeet 0]

I want to go to Aomori again as well, really had a good impression of the region.

[Snowhaus 0]

NPM - what I always do - sit around waiting for it to snow!

 

In the meantime, apparently my function at work is to poke around into other peoples lives, generally act like a busybody, and offer advice to the lovelorn. Typical anego stuff. Oh, and party in Tokyo every few months.

 

Yes, life is good in Tohoku

[bettyx 0]

i had a half-canadian nine-year-old boy in my elementary class today, he was so crazy & spoke the best english i've heard from a 'half' kid. everything was really slow & drawn out, & he totally spoke like a canadian dude, complete with the sterotypical 'eh' at the end of his sentences, & he had a really laidback stance & was just very unlike his japanese classmates.

 

his name was astra, which i thought was kinda weird.

 

it wasn't until half-way through the class that i realized he was a she.

 

obviously all her english was learnt from her canadian dad, and this really affected her style of speaking/acting.

 

this made me think, how do you teach your child to speak naturally in another language, without over-influencing their behaviour? if i was to raise a boy to speak english in a non-english-speaking country, would his english sound feminine?

[tsondaboy 0]

I don’t know about the kids, but for sure most of us gaijins that can speak Japanese speak like women. At least that’s the latest comment I heard from my professor.

Well, that’s the price you have to pay, if you learn Japanese from your girlfriend/wife.

[sakebomb 0]

I try not to listen to my wife

My daughter is two and at the moment she speaks mostly Japanese with a little English mixed in. Although she understands english unless we constantly communicate in English at home I don't think she will be bilingual. I think Gamera has a valid point of not only learning but having the opportunity to use another language.

After reading some of the posts above I have been trying to speak more english at home so she becomes more familiar with the language but I won't push her to learn it, I am more interested in her happiness and wellbeing at the moment (and stopping her from drawing on the walls).

[Yuki's Passion 1]

 Quote:

Originally posted by sakebomb:
I try not to listen to my wife

SB,

[TheOrange 0]

Yamakashi .... does that say "Let's Hard Gay?"

[Yuki's Passion 1]

yup

[sakebomb 0]

My wife doesn't think that, she actually tell me sometimes she doesn't listen

Unfortunately I live near a few friendly yankis so my Japanese is unfortunately boarding on unpleasant (maybe I should be a chimpira).

 

フォォォォ！！！

[gamera 0]

Chimpira lol...