Jump to content

Recommended Posts

...and this has nothing, I repeat nothing, to do with the fact that they were in the US (and one of the judges was american and snowboarding is nowadays the #1 winter sports over there and...).


Giacomo Kratter 4th? After THAT second run? Yeah, right.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah nice try Simon, you must be completely right. I'm just trying to figure out why your theory doesn't seem to work on any other event.......


Japanese TV only shows the Nakai kid and doesn't show the rest of the participants. Really sucks. For some reason we got to see the chicks.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, johnboy, let me think. Maybe because most of the other Olympics events are not controlled by judges? (and the ones that do stir ALWAYS controversy... look at figure skating yesterday). Or maybe because TV networks/ski-snowboard companies couldn't care less of curling, luge, biathlon and other events?


I'm not saying Powers, Kass & Thomas are crap. Matter of fact, they kick ass. Ross Powers was simply perfect and he deserves the gold. But a sweep... Hmmmm...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Simon, I'm willing to go with you a bit on this one as I, too, thought it seemed kind of patsy that the US team would sweep the pipe.


But what exactly are you saying?


You say most events are not judged. Is it really "most"? All the compulsory and singles and pairs figure skating, all the ski jumping, the mogul skiing, the freestyle ski jumping, the halfpipe...


In the one you mentioned, ice skating, the Americans "LOST" the gold to a Russian pair that some say wasn't as good and even had a stumble...where was the pro-US bias in this example?


Also, you said only 1 of the snowboard judges was from the US. What about all the others? Are you saying they were bribed? Or that it was fixed? This seems pretty unlikely to me.


Also, in an event where the final score of each rider is a mathematical combination of scores from many judges and the point margins separating the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. riders was so small, it hardly seems likely that this was some sort of planned result.


Mayby you are saying that all the judges felt sorry for the US and/or intimidated by the crowd's chanting of USA, USA, USA, so gave higher scores to the US riders?


Is that what you are saying?


My position would be that it sure seems a surprising coincidence, but as with Houdini you are kind of left wondering how in the world they could have done it that way...and if it were fixed or rigged or involved bribery or actual intimidation, the number of people required to be involved in order to produce those scores is so high that somebody would probably spill the beans...not to mention it's pretty hard to fix a result where only hundredths of a point separate the finishers.


So what exactly are you saying has happened?


Is there more to it than "seems strange, nudge nudge wink wink, this was set up, nudge nudge wink wink"?


If that's all there is, yours was still a fine post and got me thinking.


But if you have any specific theories or ideas about how this conspiracy could have been pulled off, then post them.


Because I badly need something to read or do tomorrow at work.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Both the snowboarding halfpipe events were great.

The womens comp was unbelievable, fantastic to see how far girls are pushing it these days. I loved it when the Japanese girl came back and stomped the big flip in the second run after getting a fat lip trying it the first time.


As for the sweep in the mens, Whats the big deal?

Austrians do it in skiing all the time and what about

the Aussie swimmers. They often clean up.

Any sport with judges is going to be open to debate

but all those guys in the top 6 rocked big time.

Link to post
Share on other sites


most of the events at the Olympics are not judged. From a rapid count, I'd say more than two thirds.


The ice skating example was there to "prove" that the credibility of some judges is less than zero (btw, the losing couple was canadian).


IMO Kratter (haakonflip 7 bs rodeo 7 and a flawless 1080) and Nakai were way better than Thomas (fs air and bs air without grab... bah), but Thomas got the bronze (and if you've seen it on TV, a part of the public was surprised by the judges' decision, and they were in SLC, not in Cortina or Nagano).

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy or anything like that, but I think that MAYBE there was some sort of pressure on the judges... I've seen any kind of stuff in the past Olympics (especially in boxing events), that I cannot exclude some kind of fixing.


But, of course, it's only my opinion. And, as Peaker says, it's no big deal. The top six rocked.

(btw, when Austrians do it in skiing and Aussies do it in swimming, there are no judges involved. The faster ones win, and that's it).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just want to have a say on this topic. Who cares who won because, as we all know, the world's best pipe riders weren't even there.

Also, have you noticed how many Olympic related topics have appeared on this board which, 10 days ago, seemed to be full of people who didn't care about the games and weren't going to watch them? rolleyes.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info, Simon.


Sounds like you got to watch the whole thing! I am jealous!! Why I even have the feeling that if I got to see some tape of the men's halfpipe, Satoya would come busting through the pipe doing a reprise of her mogul run.


By the way, is it true that the method of judging halfpipe contests varies?


I've read that most riders prefer to keep the friendly "pipe jam" format, where they just ride for a couple hours and at the end rate each other. Like in skateboarding I guess...


But then there are all these "Official" contests where they have had to impose certain formalistic categories on the riders, e.g. "amplitude", and how they look doing certain required or recommended moves (which may not look so great to the public)...I read that the judging system is not consistent among all such contests.


Maybe that's for the best. If you fully standardized the judging across the board, I suppose you could end up with a situation like the one I read about where mogul judges don't appreciate Johnny Moseley's new "Dinner Roll" jump because it is off-axis and even though the crowd loves it, it gets no points.


He even had to petition the governing body (probably those stiff swollen old-world Euro geezers in the FIS?) just to be allowed to DO that jump.


Can you imagine that in snowboarding? Having to petition to be allowed to do a trick? (This may have already happened. I read that, for example, a few years ago the Michaelchuck, then a new trick that was generally only done by the guy who invented it, confused/disappointed the judges while thrilling the crowd and the other riders...)


Standardizing all judging in snowboarding could maybe give us competitions about as exciting to watch as compulsories in skating...watching somebody skate a backwards figure 8 is just not very gripping. Maybe they'll get out the rulers and measure exactly how high each person went, then figure that measurement into the score, etc. How stupid.


When I see the phrasing in newspaper articles that tries to gee-whiz sell these snowboard competitions to John Q. Public, lately it is the stock phrase "Official organizers were skeptical that a lifestyle-sport like snowboarding could be an Olympic sport..."


A "lifestyle sport"? I couldn't really figure what that means.


But when you think about the judging issues, and about riders such as Terje who have legendary or groundbreaking status in the sport, but refuse to even try to participate in the FIS-sponsored events and Olympics, that stock phrasing actually makes a kind of sense to me. A "lifestyle sport"...


Synchro swimming, OK. Get your judges and make a big deal out of it. I think Terje might even be ready to give synchro a try.


But snowboarding? Imposing formal strictures and judging methodology on it doesn't seem to match the spirit or practice of the sport. When I think about watching the pipe, I usually don't give a crap who wins. I just want to see the riders going off.


I don't know how to handle it, but the pipe jam format seems to be the best current answer.




[This message has been edited by badmigraine (edited 13 February 2002).]

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's simple question?


How else would the pipe winner be decided that would satisfy us?


I personally don't think that there is any way that is going to be correct or right in any sport where timing is not the decider, but the technicality is.


Sure you get let the atheletes judge themselves, but the IOC won't have a part in that.


Bring on the two plank boys to the Olympics and watch the Olympics take out the Emmy awards!!! ROCK ON TWO PLANKERS! cool.gif


Congrat's to the US boarders! biggrin.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites


They're somewhere other than the farcically corrupt, over commercialized, circus that is the Salt Lake Olympics.

I would guess somewhere where they are pulling twice the air, with twice the style, of the 'medal' winners.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the majority of the best pipe riders were at the olympics.


Sure there were a few notable exceptions, (Terje, Shaun White), but in some cases (White), they didn't qualify.


I've heard alot of complaints about the judging, and it seems like popular opinion is that places 4-6 got robbed. Sure it's tough to judge an event like snowboarding, but I like badmigraines pipe jam format the

best. There has to be a solution. The

olympics are so corrupt. With the pairs figure skating contest (It was the Canadian team that got robbed, by the way), there has

been allegations of predermined judging


see www.olypmics.com for more info, but basically it amounts to vote trading by the judges, saying "i'll hook your team up in the next event, if you hook these guys up for this event" like the votes are already counted before the event begins.


my estimation is not any kind of sympathy vote - snowboarding is not really the all-american sport anyways - i mean, sure it is big in the US and was invented in the US, but it's not like baseball or NFL football.

probably just inconsistent/poor judging on the part of the officials, but not as bad as the pairs figure skating.


also see www.transworldsnowboarding.com for some of the fans in attendance's reaction to the judging.


and yes pipe skiing should be allowed in the olympics. those skiers make the snowboarding stunts look easy with the tricks that they can pull in the pipe. but that doesn't change the fact that snowboarding is still wayy more fun smile.gif


most of these pros are

Link to post
Share on other sites


I don't agree that it's the same with all sports. In the vast majority of big money sports, ie. soccer, NFL, NBA, baseball, tennis, golf etc. the young prodigies are touted from a young age and brought up to make money from their talent. There isn't another Luis Figo out there not playing professional soccer in the big leagues, there isn't another Tiger Woods playing golf every other weekend on his local course.

But I do agree that some other sports, probably due to the relatively low wages, don't attract the best so much. And snowboarding seems to be one of those sports where, thank God, many people do it for the love of it rather than the money or the glare of winning medals.

Obviously, everyone would like to get paid for riding everyday, that would be awesome, but their is a difference between the pro riders who do the videos and races for appreciation by their peers, and those that just want nationwide acclaim.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yo ocean11 ol` son. I gotta quote ya on this one. And i quote....


``The Olympics stink. I have no quriosity in them at all``


oh yes you are!! bet ya cant hold out til the end of em without makin a comment. hhh?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Juan, old son, it's not necessary to be curious about the Olympics to see a fair bit of it, and to have an opinion about it. And comment doesn't imply enthusiasm.


Frinstance, today's Asahi News had this on the front today: "Shimizu 0.03 byo sa, gin" or "Shimizu 0.03 sec difference, silver". It stinks. They're trying to say that he should really have got a gold medal, so modest was the difference, but they're also saying, accidentally, that the difference between silver and gold is meaningless.


And they're right, it is meaningless. For whole nations to be getting their knickers in a twist about timing and judgements concerning a handful of their nationals is grotesque. When Goebbels persuaded Hitler to host the Berlin Olympics (thereby setting the whole pattern for every subsequent iteration of the Games), it was by pointing out that the nationalistic aspects of the event would overwhelm whatever internationalist spirit surrounded the 'Olympic Movement'. Hitler was very pleased with outcome.


What the Asahi should really have said was "Shimizu, painkiller injections, silver". Because certainly, he probably would not have made it to the finishing line at all without them. And yet the lad will have had his piss inspected for a whole list of recreational drugs as well as certain sorts of cough mixture. So he got his medal, and when he's 60, we'll see who can run round the block faster, him or me. (Probably him, because I use painkillers and recreational drugs. Ha!)


And neither on yesterday's news nor in today's newspaper did I see any pictures of the gold medallist, not that I want to. It's just that the absence of such would appear to confirm Goebbel's instinct.


Gosh, Juan, you're right, I couldn't help myself, I've written quite a rant. What was the bet again?

Link to post
Share on other sites

no bet old son, i knew ya couldn`t do it so it would hardly be fair.


oh, by tha way, curiosity doesn`t equal enthusiasim, it equals interest. and you clearly have sum o` that.


keep tha philosophies comin though, they`re great!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Create New...