Bullying

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Just spent the day talking to a friend about the serious bullying of her son...it is just appalling what can go on in this day and age. Net result after months of torture - broken arm!

 

Were you ever bullied as a kid?

What was the worst you know of?

 

Any bright idea's or things that worked in your experience to make it stop, or make life easier for the victim?

[gerard 6]

Broken arm. That's pretty bad. Hopefully that's enough to wake people up -ie parents and teachers etc.- to deal with the problem and set those little punk-ass kids straight.

[JA2340 16]

In my day, it was called "playground hi-jinks" and dismissed as inconsequential.

 

Unfortunately, I tend to agree with that - we cosset our kids to the point that, if someone says something nasty (like, ferinstance "you are ugly") it is construed as damaging to their self image and thus bullying. Most parents would be amazed at the way that kids treat each other, and the impulse to protect our kid from anything that "might" hurt them is stropng.

 

However, I believe that we really do have to let the little ones get a grip, get over stuff that hurts, and learn that "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger."

 

Our kids have become so insulated from everything that the slightest infection will be dangerous. They need to get a bit dirty, eat a bit of dirt, get a bit pushed around, and push back. How else are they to build up a resistance to common infections?

[HelperElfMissy 42]

'fraid that is unlikely ger.

 

I recommended she press charges against the kids (we are talking 13 yr olds here) and she said that some other children in the school were in HUGE trouble and the school called the police in - they could do nothing because the kids were underage. And the kids knew it. The school asked the police to have a stern talk to the kids to set them straight and the little punks told them "Ya cant touch me ya !@#$%^ pigs, we are underage! So you can go and !@#% yourselves" Tomorrows jailbirds I am afraid.

 

Sad thing is this gorgeous and generous spirited little guy has fought for life every step of the way. A premmie who has battled cancer and cerebral palsy amongst other daily struggles - and these punks who need to make others feel bad so they can feel good decide HE is the one they will pick on - a kid who cant fight back. And they attack in pairs or groups as well. It is just sickening.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

JA this is not hijinks...

 

Two of my kids also seem to have had neon signs saying 'bully me' on thier foreheads - but it has mainly been verbal nasties - the occassional push and shove and buttons missing off clothes. But the injuries have been relatively minor. The eldest found his niche of mates and has brushed off the years in junior school where he did not fit in. The 12 yr old has just recently discovered he is bigger and stronger than most of the kids his age, and he aint taking it anymore. He will never start anything, but just this year he has drawn the line in the sand and decided that if anyone else starts something HE will finish it.

 

But my kids experiences have not included being strung up from a tree, having a mobile flushed down the toilet, being threatened with death, and being flung through the air by two much larger boys to a resulting broken arm (UPPER arm at that - near the shoulder) - and ALL of those were just this week.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

yep gotta agree with MB, that isn't Hi-jinks, and to allow that to happen for the "moral posterity" of the kid involved is also criminal. JA I understand where you are coming from but this situation does not sound like someone has only said a nasty name, this is physical abuse pure and simple. If this isn't nipped in the bud then it could be the kid who ends up taking his own life. Get those little bastards and beat the shit outta them....then go round and do the same to their scumbag parents who don't seem to be doing shit to control their little gremlins.

[Jynxx 4]

I hate bullies..

My worst experience is when I went to England and at kindy there were these twin girls.

They just hit me. One was worse than the other. I was conditioned not to hit girls, (you just don't hit girls), even they were bigger than me. To make things worth, I couldn't talk the language well enough. It only stopped one day when I couldn't take it no more and crumpled. The less aggressive one asked me if I was OK. I said " No, why do you hit me?" she said "Because you are not a gentleman" Can you believe that ? That was '64.

I changed schools a lot because of my dad's company transferring him, and when you are a kid anything different and any excuse will cop you a bullying.

My solution? Get the biggest bully. Don't worry about the others but beat the crap out of him like your life depends on it. Don't even teach your kid about a fair fight. It's not fair when you are small and you are bullied by a group of big ones. Teach your kid to fight dirty, and teach your kid discipline. The most important thing is to talk about fear and how to confront it. How important it is to protect your self and especially about feelings. And how to fight with using your brain. If the parents can't do it, I hope they are intelligent enough to find a martial arts teacher who is a sensitive being and talks and teaches these things to kids.

[big-will 7]

I was neither bullied or did any myself but there was a fair bit around. The usual geeky/sensitive types are the easiest targets.

 

A broken arm! How did that happen Mamabear? Sad story from what you say.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

He was happily playing handball, was chased, then one boy grabbed his arms, other boy grabbed his feet and they swung him back and forth to get momentum, and then let him fly.

After it was obvious he was hurt they threatened him with worse if he told. He went through the rest of the day (about 5 hours) with a broken arm and did not tell a soul.

 

It certainly is a sad story.

 

It just seems that what used to be hi-jinks has turned into something more sinister these days. There are kids being really badly hurt, and certain kids not having a single day free of torment, there are kids and teens self harming due to the abuse they suffer at school, and there are some who end it because they just cant take any more. It just seems to be a whole lot worse than the occassional nasties I knew at school

[bobby12 0]

There are a lot of very poor parents who have little education and show a bad example to their kids. These kids then go to school and drag everyone else down. They then grow into adults and repeat the process, I have seen it first hand with uncles etc.

 

result: existence of private schools.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: bobby12

result: existence of private schools.

You are not wrong there Bobby12!!

That has been discussed a bit in relation to this issue.
Seems the poor government schools are unable to expel students for this kind of behaviour nowdays. I know our private school takes some kids who have been expelled from other schools, and they give chances for rehabilitation to other members, but the bottom line is if you persist you are gone.

They should set up a boot camp style government school with residential facilities (get them away from thier parents for the week) for these kids who are at risk of ending up in Juvie, get them OUT of the local government school and stick them in Boot Camp school for a$$holes for a 'term' (commensurate with offences) before they are allowed to rejoin thier local school. If they repeat offend then kick them to the boot camp for the remainder.

[bobby12 0]

^^ Sounds a bit like Borstal

[indosnm 0]

WTF? So there is no bullying in private schools?

 

All that walking away, and ignoring it crap is all good in theory BUT it only makes it wore. Send them to a good Thai Gym (or Boxing). They will build up their confidence and if it still persists, will have the ability to take the bully(ies) out. Nothing like a good smack in the mouth or a low kick to teach the bullies a lesson.

[Tubby Beaver 209]

MB that would be a good idea, I really think that some tough military style discipline would work in MOST cases BUT the fact is these schools wouldn't be tolerated. We live in a society now where adults are scared to discipline children for fear of prosecution, these style schools rely on parents being 120% behind the school, giving them free reign to discipline their kids as they see fit. Parents will NOT give the level of support needed to make these schools work. There was a documentary on TV back home a few years ago called Brat Camp. Where these problem teens were taken out into the middle of the countryside in rural America, living in tents (perhaps huts). The leaders were behavioural "experts", they lived with the kids and gave them tasks each day. They had to build a fire, catch their food, basically they were responsible for their survival. The kids shouted, swore, kicked, punched and run away. Whch was futile as there wasn't any human settlement for miles. Very interesting docu, for the kids to go home they had to graduate from the camp, and they could only grduate on the leaders say so. When they had parents day, kids were crying to their parents to take em home, gone were the tough teens and in their place was the little kids that they are. I don't know for sure but I'd guess, especially in litigious USA, that the parents had to sign parental control over absolutely to the programme.

Be interesting to see if these kids changed their ways when they went back home.

 

When I was a Pupil Support Worker in a High School back home, we ran a mini program with the 6 worst behaved 2nd and 3rd year pupils (13-14yr olds). We had them for the full school day for 2 weeks, trying to work on their interpersonal and social skills through various tasks. When things would kick off, and they often did, we would stand back (unless it was really violent), let the kids vent BUT we videotaped the whole scene, then later in the day we watched it back again to let them see how they acted and the results were quite impressive. Embarrassment was a huge factor when the kids saw themselves. We'd then work with each of them on anger management issues, scenarios in class that would make them kick off and some non-violent solutions. we introduced a red-card system to the most explosive kids, where in class when they couldn't hold themselves in check, they were able to produce the card to the teacher and walk out of class to cool down. Obviously we needed the support of the teachers for these unusual tactics and for a while thngs were working. But the longer the time away from our intensive programme and back in mainstream with all ther mates the more the kids regressed and the more they abused their "new privelleges" and we had to rescind the red card system. While I thought at the time that the 2 weeks were mental and we didn't really achieve anything, the feedback from the teaching staff was very positive, they saw a marked difference in the behaviour of the kids, albeit for a short period of time.

[HelperElfMissy 42]

Originally Posted By: Indo

WTF? So there is no bullying in private schools?

NO....

Originally Posted By: Mamabear

Seems the poor government schools are unable to expel students for this kind of behaviour nowdays. I know our private school takes some kids who have been expelled from other schools, and they give chances for rehabilitation to other members, but the bottom line is if you persist you are gone.

But the Private School has the option to kick them to the kerb if it doesnt stop. Mind you we are talking extreme bullying here. There are kids in my 12 yr olds class who are serial tormenters - horrid little monsters they are - but they are not breaking arms!

Originally Posted By: Indo

All that walking away, and ignoring it crap is all good in theory BUT it only makes it wore. Send them to a good Thai Gym (or Boxing). They will build up their confidence and if it still persists, will have the ability to take the bully(ies) out. Nothing like a good smack in the mouth or a low kick to teach the bullies a lesson.

But what about the kids like my friends son who are not able to get into boxing or a thai gym - physically limited.

Surely our society is civilized enough that we can afford protection to the most vulnerable from the most immoral.

[JA2340 16]

OK, I was out of line, I agree that there are things that should not be acceptable in any society, let alone a civilised one. However, the trouble is that it's almost impossible to catch them.

[Jynxx 4]

Originally Posted By: Mamabear

But what about the kids like my friends son who are not able to get into boxing or a thai gym - physically limited.

Surely our society is civilized enough that we can afford protection to the most vulnerable from the most immoral.

No, it's not about the system. It's the people in that society and values that has been built.
When I was at Japanese Junior high School, This would not have been tolerated by classmates. At that time we still had "Bancho" (head watcher) who was the hard man, stand over, stand up guy in most schools. Not necessary the biggest or the strongest but a fighter. Of course they all had a bit of a psyco side to them, and if you piss him off, there's been injustice, one had to deal with him. He was the protector of the school, Having a stronger Bancho meant you don't get bashed or mugged by other school students.
The hard boys. There were lots of reasons to "fight". The injustice of the Japanese society and grown ups. Some of them just wanted to fight.
We would have never accepted a bully as a Bancho. 3 or 4 bullies would have been surrounded by 20 of us, bashed, cloths ripped off, tossed into a pool or made them run naked in school.
You can still fight when you have physical disability and he should be encouraged to express himself. And the basic rule is simple. YOU DON"T DO STUFF TO OTHERS WHAT YOU DON"T WANT TO BE DONE TO YOU.
And the ones who ignores what happens are accessory to the crime. Shame on them.

[gerard 6]

You paint a colourful picture of Japan a few generations ago, there Jynxx. Good stuff. Not that it's funny but I just have to

[Jynxx 4]

Thanks ger ... I just wanted to show a bit of violent side of Japanese kids but we cared about our mates. There were some rules and we understood them because we will lose "respect".

Any High school guys (year 10~12) picking on a Junior high (7~9) would be ridiculed and laughed at by his peers. High school was hard core. Bad girls with two razors taped on erasers. Paper weight bars for Calligraphy placed on the bottom of school bags for effect.

No knives. Or you crossed the line..

We did fear about and hoped the other guy is not going to end up dead when we fought.

In our Junior high, there were 6 of us. Most of the teachers gave up on us. We brought a ghetto-blaster to school and started karaoke. The music teacher loved us because we joined the school chorus. I'm quite girly and some of these guys were a bit like thugs but we sang beautifully. The faces of the teachers when they heard us singing in the chorus. These guys never had grades over average but they got motivated and studied for just one subject, Music. They were not going to high school because they shall be working for family business afterwards. I still remember their faces when they got the best grade for music.