JA2340 16 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Originally Posted By: Mantas Nah, just being sentimental. My kids get a lot more out of school than just maths and grammar. They are in the school choir, jump rope team, drama club, cross country running team........ Yes, One of the totally ignored "downsides" of home schooling. The socialisation of the student, the ability to co-operate with others, the ability to accept unwarranted (sometimes) and even nasty (sometimes) criticism from peers/teachers/other students. I have encountered several "home schooled" students - the parents were trained primary teachers but decided that they knew enough to teach the student through to the HSC. Unfortunately for the poor kids, the parents could not be dissuaded from this delusion. My only hope is that the kids get out of the house after "school" and actually live a little before they are dragged back into the nest. Unfortunately, home schooling seems a little like parents who refuse to let the kids grow up and leave home. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 The only good thing I can see about home schooling is that it takes the pressure off the kids that you don't have to go to school and do it their way. It comes with responsibility because you made that decision. Sooner or later you want to be with other kids and go back to school, I reckon... It might be a good idea to have "school of the air" like in outback areas, but everywhere in Oz. I always thought Australian TV is garbage, I might be out of touch here, JA because I stopped watching them, and the only ones I like is Discovery channel, and Animals, and Nat. Geogrraphics, stuff. like that. The point is WHY IS THERE NO DEDICATED CHANNEL FOR EDUCATION....can be really good for people, not only for kids who are not at school or can't be there for what ever reason. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 There is some educational tv programming Jynxx - I remember watching some of those programmes when I was in school all those years ago! Home Schooling. The reasons for doing it are wide and varied. My SIL began teaching her children from home when they became school age because she was in an extremely remote location where the school was less than adequate - she had taught at that school and did not want that for her children - the environment was not safe. However she has continued to home school them due to religious beliefs. This is where I got concerned - by isolating them and teaching them only what SHE felt appropriate things thier education has big holes in it. I also worry as her eldest will be tackling high school the year after next, and teaching at that level I think requires specialist instructions to be done well. It certainly is 'alternative' to home school your children - particularly through high school. Although I can see some benefits for children who are autistic or have other special needs that would benefit from familiar environments and low numbers of people to interact with. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Mama, Understand the remote home schooling thing, but even then, the kids often end up in boarding schools for their secondary schooling. Main reasons given include the fact that the parents do not feel adequately prepared to "teach" the curriculum at that level - and they'd be right! - and the socialisation of the kids. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Originally Posted By: Jynxx The only good thing I can see about home schooling is that it takes the pressure off the kids that you don't have to go to school and do it their way. It comes with responsibility because you made that decision. Sooner or later you want to be with other kids and go back to school, I reckon... Trouble is that he kids do not make the decision, it is the parents, and sometimes for the most selfish of reasons. There are very good and valid reasons for "home" schooling - remoteness, special needs of the child, etc. But by far the majority of city home schooled kids are for the parents to be able to say "we did it!". Deff not about the kid at all! Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I very much doubt that anyone who home schools actually studiously provides 6-7 hours of solid teaching a day for 5 days a week. If they can do it, then I guess the kid could become very bright. They would need total exposure on weekends to sports clubs etc though to build up the camaradarie skills. I think the problem for such kids would be once they become an adult they will be shocked by many things: - nasty people exist - I cant always expect 100% attention and handholding - etc Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Agreed JA. Totally agreed. In SIL's case I thought she might send them to boarding school for High School - and even contemplated that she might send them down to me to access schooling as we are right smack bang in the middle of a high density schooling zone (7 Private Schools closer than the closest public High School!) However she now lives in a city and still no plans to send them to school. ohhhh....and did I mention there are 10... I have trouble keeping up with the housework, working part time and raising my kids and I have 4.... no idea how she can possibly manage all that plus schooling them with that many. Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 10 kids - so it means she is teaching algebra to a 3 year old or teaching her 16 year old how to drink from a cup. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Well...yes and no. The eldest is 12 in October, and there is close to one per year - two of the girls, just 10 months apart in age are in the same school year (kindy). She runs programs in conjunction with daily life - for example liquids solids and gases are explored while baking muffins - as are measurements etc. Creative writing topics can be the same - just expectations and assessment are different. They DO work with a homeschooling group and have external assessments and testing to make sure the kids are going along well and not falling behind - but I still have great concern about how well High School level education will be dealt with in that environment. I also cant fathom how one can find time for all these different levels of schooling going on in the middle of nappies and newborns and the demands that a baby makes on one. She does reckon that the formal part of 'school' takes only an hour or two a day as opposed to the 6+ hours a day our kids are at school, simply because it is targetted learning with less kids. I would love to be a fly on the wall and see how it all actually works on a daily basis - reckon it would do my head in personally. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 What I cannot fathom is how she has not managed to work out what has caused it - and STOPPED doing it! How does she teach reproduction? Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I am not sure she does - another of my concerns.... She absolutely adores each and every one of them - but it is not a life I would choose... Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Yeah reproduction is a difficult one to teach - too simplistic and the kids don't take it seriously, too serious and the kids just don't pay attention, but one of those things that need to be taught. Think I was 10 when I was 'taught' about realistic version of reproduction, not the birds and the bees gubbins. Was certainly an eye opener that day to the world of girls. Didn't think they were so smelly though. But also they failed to neglect to teach how much fun it is. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 JA, I agree it is all about the parents. There is no argument about that in a sense that the parents decide what is best for their kids. Some parents just want to do the best thing for their kids, and no one can blame that, but there is no assurance it is going to work out that way. The kid might not appreciate it in a sense the parents expects them to, but may take it as a gift since most stuffed up experience carries positive lessons in the future. But that's being optimistic, too. . Most parents don't realize it is their lesson and refuse to learn about their shortcomings. One thing ... Homework is absolute BS. Kid's work is to play People learn at a different pace. If your heart is not there, what's the point? Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Originally Posted By: Jynxx One thing ... Homework is absolute BS. Sorry, disagree completely! Homework is essential, at a middle to higher school level at least, as a means of reinforcing material taught. It is also a way of allowing the student to show ability to research and synthesise arguments rather than just regurgitating facts. Assessment tasks are usually performed as "home" assignments rather than as in class tests because of this. The student can do work that cannot be expected to be mere recall (recall is not a very important part of learning, as it happens) but higher level activities like analysis and synthesis which are more important in future. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I also think early age appropriate homework sets up a pattern of behaviour that will help kids in later years have a 'habit' of study. Nothing serious mind you. 5 spelling words for the week, a few pages of a book read in bed each night, and the occassional research question (a one line answer in Year1 and 2 progressing to a page of research material in year 7) as an example. However it should also be flexible so that homework fits into a childs life - if they have a big day of sport training after school - no homework that night - do it the next. Teaches time management and organisation and prioritizing skills. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 when you say early, at what age do you mean by that? is year 1 5 yrs old? And also what age did you children obtain reading comprehension? That skill takes a lot longer than expected, and also depends on the parents actively being involved in this skill as it requires a 3rd party to ask the question to the child. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 If you can't teach and learn in the school hours, That's totall BS. What I study or do after school is my business... It's a f+cked up system anyways. No wonder it convinces some parents to do home schooling. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Year one in Perth is now 6-7 years of age. I had one reading environmental signage and common labels from 18 months old. The first thing he did when he got out of the car in my mothers driveway was circle my parents car pointing out all of the name badging on the car and saying "Nissan!" ... at the end he would proudly look at me and say "Nanna's Nissan!". When he was beginning Pre-Primary (he was just about to turn 5 - it was prior to the intake age change that now makes them a bit older) - I had just switched schools due to moving house and met the teacher just the day before school started. I threw her an offhand "Oh by the way he is reading." before I left the Parent-Teacher interview. At a later date she admitted that she had an internal giggle - yeah yeah - he reads a few words...why do all these parents think thier child is exceptional. It was a few weeks in that she noticed he was reading a copy of snugglepot and cuddlepie at puzzle time, and she tested him. Not only on his fluency reading the story outloud but also his comprehension. At that stage the kids did 4 days in PP, and had Fridays off. After that day she organised for him to go to Year One on fridays. So maybe my expectations are a little skewed. Link to post Share on other sites
RobBright 35 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Thing is reading ISN'T that difficult. Kids can easily learn by mimicing another person's sounds ans skills, and recognizing and association isn't hard. According to my parets, at 1 year old I was saying cookie a lot and at the right times. Give a child a book they have never seen before, and never had read to them before, then get them to read. A kid at my kindergarten, 5 years old, gave him a Dr Seuss, yes I know not the best book but that was the only one I had in my bag that day, boom reading and he had never seen before. Parents always think their kid is special, but its only when a neutral, or disbeliver comes in and listens to them, and they can do it by themselves from a new text, are they special. Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 And your expertise would be ... what, again? Do you not believe that learning needs to be reinforced? That is the point of homework. When you understand that, get back to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Reinforcing 10 min after first learning, and then a quick review in the evening which can be done with the parents asking "so what did you learn new today" and then after 2 days when reinforcing becomes absolutely necessary to put into longer term memory. No JA your point does not equate to why homework should be reinforced by incompetent teachers and the system. Every kid find their way, what works for them. How to learn. The way you describe just proves the point that the education system doesn't allow individuals to learn how to study, because it is assigned work. Pretty mindless and boring stuff. It's just an agenda to keep kids off the street. Proof- it's just out there... Link to post Share on other sites
Jynxx 4 Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 If we further want to talk with someone with expertise, we woudn't be on this forum. And if you think someone needs expertise to talk about learning experience, we all have that in different degrees...especially, people who had kids themselves have relived and examined their childhood experience much more seriously that some people. Also, their are teacher who just became teachers because they wanted to be teachers not because they can teach or really understand what teaching is all about. ring the bell...? Link to post Share on other sites
JA2340 16 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 OK, having had 30 years plus experience in teaching at various levels, I can quite categorically state that the majority of parents DO NOT do the "so what did you learn today?" thing. - end of that argument. I have had 3 kids myself, what was your point about that? I have taught at levels ranging from year 7 up to year 12, and then in the TAFE system to adults ranging from 20 up to 60 years old. I have no idea what your final point is about. Again, what is your expertise in this area, that allows you to put me (and all other teachers) down? The "I was a student once" is not valid - we were ALL once pupils, not all students. Link to post Share on other sites
HelperElfMissy 42 Posted May 25, 2009 Share Posted May 25, 2009 Agreed about parents not necessarily asking thier kids what they learnt that day...sometimes there is just not enough hours in a day. Today I discussed with my Eldest son his beard maintenance and how he was going to get to and from work this week while Papa is in Phuket (his lift to work). With Yr11 son we discussed the two exams he had today and how he went in those, and what exam is up next. Year 7 son got asked if he went to trombone, and informed us all exactly how many concentration camps there were throughout Europe during WW2. And I spend 20 minutes looking for a blue pencil and a grammar workbook so that Year 4 son could do his homework (he had misplaced both). Then I crawled back into bed sick. So while parents are involved with thier kids, and communicate - it is simply impractical to expect parents to drill thier children on all the new things they learnt that day - EVERY day. Link to post Share on other sites
Mantas 3 Posted May 25, 2009 Author Share Posted May 25, 2009 Year 4 home work is already getting complicated for me. Time to blow some cobwebs off the old brain cells. Link to post Share on other sites
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