Sicko

[iiyamadude 6]

Anyone seen the latest Michael Moore flick, Sicko? This time its about the US health service and the 'victims' of it.

[Curt 1]

No but I'd like to. This time he has toned down the Bush parts, but kept all the arrogant disregard for stats and sources, as he does. I'm sure it is worth a watch though.

[bobby12 0]

Not Bad. Made me want to never live in the US.

[samurai 0]

I'd like to watch it just so I could rip it apart like I did the fahrenheit one.

 

Actually, I had a similar conversation about socialized medicine just the other night and I'm still waiting for someone to help me out-

 

Can anyone cite one medical advancement that came out of a socialized system?

 

Aside from the pace-maker, the stent, and all the cardiovascular medicine that has come out of the states, I could probably sit down for a day and research all the advancements that have come out of the 'unfairly' expensive medical system of the US.

 

Not looking to argue, honestly looking for someone to cite one medical advancement that has come out of a socialized system.

 

And if given the choice- I would choose america's health care over japan's. Health care in Japan is my biggest gripe with this country that I do love dearly.

[Oyuki kigan 0]

doesn't Cuba have pretty advanced medical science research? I thought i heard that somewhere.

 

Also, when you have the fattest, unhealthiest people on the planet, you will naturally have need for pace-makers, stents, and cardiovascular medicine. Whereas other countries may have zero need for this stuff.

[Rag-Doll 0]

Sami - I don't think medical RnD is necessarily a product of whether the system is socialised or not. It probably has more to do with the money spent on RnD by governments and hospitals and universities combined with the availability of the the right kind of training for the people involved. Whether or not Joe Average can get access to subsidised health care is probably not all that relevant - unless perhaps providing that service channels money from RnD, in which case whether or not the doctor can do a heart transplant standing on his head doesn't really help ol' Joe if Joe can't afford the surgery.

[Rag-Doll 0]

Back in the day, my wife and I went to great lengths to ensure we saw western trained medicos when we needed it. We had about as much faith in the Japanese medical system as we had in the NHS.

[Kumapix 0]

not sure if this qualifies:

http://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/News/Top-1...oryID=news-type

 

notably insulin and the polio vaccine

 

Yeah, for Canada!

 

edit: well, insulin and the polio vaccine don't count since they happened before the Universal Health Act of 1966

[samurai 0]

Both Oyuki and Ragdoll have good points above.

 

While I agree that research is being conducted, I just want to hear about innovation that has come from non-corporate greed. I'm sure it exists, and again... I'm not looking to argue. I'm honestly intrigued.

 

and ragdoll has a good point about RnD money. but that money at private corporations isn't subsidized by the government in america, at least not through the innovations that I have witnessed.

 

Medicine is big money and medical manufacturers will compete for that money... Whether it's Boston Scientific, Cardiac Pacemakers, Medtronic, Johnson and Johnson, Pfizer, etc... they are constantly battling each other to stay ahead of the curve. Whether or not that has anything to do with socialized or privatized medical insurance is beyond me. But, I'm wondering if socialized insurance can afford the $14,000 stent that the 'expensive american insurers' provide by the half-dozen... or if they have to wait in line. (That is actual cost too, btw)

 

A reason for this is what I view as a very poor selection of medicine in Japan. I get this idea that everything is so socialized that it's not open to competition from overseas. I can't get my favorite asthma inhalers here that I can get in the US, UK and Aus. Maybe I'm mistaken as to why that medicine isn't available in Japan. I really don't know.

 

(My bias comes from being a medical engineer's son and witnessing first hand the development of angioplasty and stents. I grew up staring at the drawing board... literally. Medtronic. And to quote my father, "My job would not exist if medical insurance was subsidized.")

 

Recently, however, production has been shipped to Ireland while R&D for Medtronic stayed in the US. Just an observation.

 

again, let's not piss on each other. I do see potential for this to turn into a political flame war and I have no agenda.

[Oyuki kigan 0]

not a piss at all. My father would be dead if not for his quadruple bypass and stents.

 

But medical advancement is neccassary when people are seriously ill. Some industries in the US promote illness, while others are created to solve the illnesses. Its a wierd cycle.

[Rag-Doll 0]

Out of interest, how much corporate money is involved in a doctor in a hospital deciding that there must be a better way to treat, say, bone cancer or decides that he/she reckons there are improvements that can be made in the way a particular surgery is performed? There would obviously be a need for research funding and stuff like that, but the techniques developed are a bit different from some drug that the companies can then patent and sell. The new "jones technique" for removing a heart and putting it back probably doesn't have a lot of commercial value. The identification and description of a disease probably doesn't generate a lot of money for anyone - unless of course there were treatments also developed that could be sold, I guess.

 

All said though samurai, I'm inclined to agree with the idea that where there is money, there is profit motivation which drives innovation which produces advancements.