corns

[damian 0]

Corns

 

My girlfriend would like to know why the plural for corn is not corns. Carrots, pears, peas, beans, eggs.

[daver 0]

a better question is why do we call it 'corn on the cob'? that is the way it comes. we should just call it 'corn' and all other types 'corn off the cob'.

[charlotte 0]

Its corns when its on your feet, right?

[bushpig 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by daver:
a better question is why do we call it 'corn on the cob'? that is the way it comes. we should just call it 'corn' and all other types 'corn off the cob'.

you may well have answered spud's question there. Maybe originally it was only considered as a whole on the cob, and therefore the word corn originally applied to "corn on the cob". PErhaps the idea of cutting it off and shipping it off in cans came a bit later, after the usage had already stuck. Whereas peas are a separate entity from the pods they come in which as a whole are called beans riht? Whaddaya reckon?

[bushpig 0]

This site had this to say:

 

 Quote:

"grain," O.E. corn, from P.Gmc. *kurnam "small seed," from PIE base *ger- "wear away" (O.Slav. zruno "grain," Skt. jr- "to wear down," L. granum). The sense of the O.E. word was "grain with the seed still in" rather than a particular plant. Locally understood to denote the leading crop of a district. Restricted to corn on the cob in America (originally Indian corn, but the adjective was dropped), usually wheat in England, oats in Scotland and Ireland, while korn means "rye" in parts of Germany. Introduced to China by 1550, it thrived where rice did not grow well and was a significant factor in the 18th century population boom there. Cornflakes first recorded 1907. Corned beef so called for the "corns" or grains of salt with which it is preserved. Cornrows as a hair style is first recorded 1971. Corny "old-fashioned" is Amer.Eng. 1932, originally, "something appealing to country folk."

So maybe usage came from when it meant more than just corn on the cob. Like wheat or other grains, it is uncountable.

[Ocean11 0]

Corn was originally an uncountable foodstuff indicating any variety of cereals (some of which is apparently countable - 'oats', and some of which is not - 'wheat'). Corn was typically used to mean 'cereal in general' in Britain, whereas in America it more generally meant 'maize'.

 

But beware! 's' doesn't always indicate a plural, and there are false plurals. Take 'pea' for example. This is a mistaken back-formation of the originally uncountable 'pease' (as in "Pease pudding hot, pease pudding cold, pease pudding up your arse etc.") Some ignoramous probably thought it was plural and decided a singular was required and came up with the 'singular' "pea", so that one can now sing, "They say that in the Army, the food is mighty fine. A pea rolled off the table, and killed a friend of mine."

 

Can you tell I dabbled in linguistics at university?

[Ocean11 0]

Also the American "corn hole" meaning ones fundament comes from the practice of early Americans stacking picked corn cobs in the toilet for wiping their bum with. I think it says a lot about Americans. (The English, being innately superior, invented the newspaper for the same purpose.)

[thursday 1]

Aside from the flushing toilet being invented by Thomas Crapper, I heard it was the Irish who invented the toilet seat and that it was an Englishmen who put the hole in it.

[Ocean11 0]

Yes of course, that's right. He used the Irishman's head as a hole punch.

[damian 0]

This stuff is helpful.

 

Ocean - she always looks at me and declares "but it is countable, there are corns on my plate?!". I find her cute, yet I am totally unable to help her. I wont tell her about the sanitary application of the countable cob.

[soubriquet 0]

Bushpig, right on all counts, imo. Corn is indeed a synonym for wheat in England. It`s an uncountable noun like rain, snow and sheep.

 

Oats are countable. I have a pretty reliable tally of how often I get mine

[soubriquet 0]

This is from Wikepedia. (I was wrong about sheep, you can and I have counted them).

 

"In linguistics, a mass noun (also uncountable noun or non-count noun) is a type of common noun that cannot be modified by a number without specifying a unit of measurement. Thus, depending on one's epistemiology, it can be said of mass nouns either (a) that they have singular but no plural forms, or ( that the grammatical concept of singular-vs-plural does not apply to them. Count nouns, on the other hand, have plural forms, and can be modified by numerals and quantifiers like "one", "two", "every", "most", etc.

 

Note that the lack of a distinct plural form is not a sufficient criterion by itself to determine that a noun is a mass noun, because several English count nouns have no inflection in the plural, including "deer" and "sheep". For example, the singular and plural forms of the word "deer" are identical, but it is grammatically acceptable to say "three deer", "a deer", or "several deer". Therefore, "deer" is a count noun. Compare with "rice": not only is there no plural "rices", but "three rice", "a rice", and "several rice" all appear wrong to native English speakers."

[damian 0]

You guys are starting to talk about grammatical things I have never even heard of. A noun is a thing and a verb is a doing word, so ends the lesson on grammar. Actually, for a guy that was not taught more than a few months of English grammar at school, I think I turned out ok, certainly well enough for my needs. Although I am not sure how, because I don't exaggerate when I say my formal schooling included almost no grammar classes (this is not uncommon in Australia, much to the delight of some when my errors light up the lives of people like Markie, giving them a chortle and a reason to say something when I make a grammatical error or use the wrong word as a result of typing so damn much so damn quickly).

[bushpig 0]

yeah, another unfortunate side-effect of being afflicted with verbal diarrhea

[soubriquet 0]

Well you asked a grammar question on a board stuffed with English teachers. The countable/uncountable thing is easy. How many grains of rice in the field, or drops of rain in the sky? It might be possible but there's no point. The only way you can count it is to have "grains of" or "drops of", so it becomes uncountable.

 

Remind her that if she's dealing with maize, then "corn" has been nicked by the Americans, and they don't speak English

 

English is a forced amalgamation of Anglo Saxon and Norman French, plus some Celtic and Scandiwegian, so there are lots of anomalies. The Anglo peasants grew pigs and cows on their farms, and shot deer in the woods. The French toffs expected porc, bouef and venise on the table.

[damian 0]

Not complaining about the quality of the answer, more quite comfortably noting in the open that they challenge my meagre education.

 

And FU BushPorc

[soubriquet 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by le spud:
Not complaining about the quality of the answer, more quite comfortably noting in the open that they challenge my meagre education.

In which case, note that BushPorc and O11 were first in with the correct answer. I'd have beaten them to it, of course, but I was out with soubriquette enjoying onsen and ramen when you posted.

Hey, we can't have out-door onsen in the rain. We might get wet.

[Ocean11 0]

> note that BushPorc and O11 were first in with the correct answer.

 

Note also that O11 knew the answer, whereas BushPorc looked it up. I'm sure Markie would appreciate the difference.

 

Michael Pollan's "The Omnivore's Dilemma" has more information about corn than most people need. Also about shooting bush pigs. And eating things.

[bushpig 0]

Yes, yes MR Knowitall 11. I bow down to you.

 

 Quote:

And FU BushPorc

[Goemon 0]

le_cob: tell her to refer to the "niblets of corn" or "kernels of corn" if she needs to pluralize the bits and pieces on her plate.

 

Niblets may win out for the kawaii factor.

 

Also explain to her that, "you don't eat corn, you rent it".

[Yuki's Passion 1]

what bout shrimp?

 

A mate of mine from the Jersey isles says shrimps. As in, Id like a shrimps pasta... Id say Id like a shrimp pasta.

 

I havent been able to sleep now for a month

[gerard 6]

In 'I'd like a shrimp pasta', 'shrimp' is acting as an adjective to describe 'pasta' so it shouldn't be pluralized. Actually though, in certain circles uncountables are increasingly becoming countable so in the future we might all be counting our corns.

Here's another one. I was recently in a store called the Cheese Boutique while visiting Canada. I remarked that I was amazed at 'all of the cheeses'. I defended my choice of words. Am I fit to be an English teacher?

[soubriquet 0]

If that's Jersey as in Channel Islands, then he is likely to speak the local dialect, including some informal use. Breton Celtic is still spoken in some communities there, and that's a completely different language.

[daver 0]

"I defended my choice of words. Am I fit to be an English teacher?"

 

as long as you don't encourage the decay of the strong verb tradition as well.

[soubriquet 0]

 Quote:

Am I fit to be an English teacher?

If you can teach your students to communicate effectively, certainly. Some of soubriquette's constructions are very informal, but she is very good at conveying meaning. I never correct her.