Siren 0 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Ocean, Bad and myself were discussing a problem relating to hard boots (for an alpine/racing snowboard) and we hope that you would be able to help us. For background discussion please see the thread entitled “Alpine/Racing Board”. These are some of the questions on my mind: What are the considerations in selecting hard boots and bindings? Possible mismatch between boots, bindings and board of different makers? Price range? Is it possible (or practical) to purchase the boots and bindings online? How does the fitting process work and what are the possible adjustments to the boots? What are the shops in Japan that can provide fitting? Ocean and Bad, who have given this more thought, may have other questions. If you have the answer to any of the above, we would be grateful if you could share with us. Bestest, Siren Link to post Share on other sites
Miltie 0 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Siren, It's nice to see some enthusiam for alpine riding on the forum! I have been riding hardboots and alpine boards since 1988. By far the most comfortable boots I have owned have been Raichle. You may also see them called Deeluxe in Japan(same brand as the softboots). To answer your questions.... What are the considerations in selecting hard boots and bindings? Most important thing is boot fit. You don't want them too tight or too loose. They have to be comfortable. I have custom footbeds which make a huge difference in either hard or soft boots. For bindings you will want to find a name brand have some ability to cant (angle) to customize your stance. I currently use Bomber bindings and have had good luck with Burton Race Plates in the past. Possible mismatch between boots, bindings and board of different makers? There are few boot/binding combinations that don't work. For the most part you shouldn't have too much trouble. Price range? Depends on if you buy new or used. Boots could run you anywhere from $100 to $700 US. Bindings from probably $100 to $300. Shop around a little you might find some good deals. Check Yahoo Auctions Japan. If you can read Japanese, you might be able to find a smoking deal. Used stuff sells cheap in Japan. (FYI - Used Thermoflex liners can be remolded) Is it possible (or practical) to purchase the boots and bindings online? Yes. I buy most of my stuff on-line at www.bomberonline.com or other online shops. How does the fitting process work and what are the possible adjustments to the boots? Other than buckle adjustment, some boots will have forward lean adjustment. Better boots will have some canting adjustment around the ankle area. Forward lean adjustment is helpful to prevent thigh burn when you first start riding alpine stuff. What are the shops in Japan that can provide fitting? There is shop Okazaki (near Nagoya) called Bari (http://www.sun-inet.or.jp/~thebari/). They have all the goods to fit Thermoflex (moldable liners) and some of the staff speak some english. There is another shop called Spielen in Ibaraki Pref. (www.spielen-sb.com). They can fit Raichle boots and custom footbeds. Any good ski shop should be able to fit you up as well - similar fitting techniques are used for ski boots. Be prepared to pay for fitting though. FYI - There are usually a lot of alpine riders at Nomugitoge (Nagano area). The lower mountain is a good place to learn to carve. What length Moss Accel did you buy? Moss makes pretty nice boards. Ocean, You need an alpine board? I might be able to help you with your addiction problem. Have a Burton Ultra Prime 162 that is collecting dust. Let me know if you have any interest. Feel I owe it to you for all the posts you write! Anyway... my contacts are drying out so I gotta call it a night. Let me know if you guys have any more questions. Gambare!! Miltie Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Thanks Miltie! Great info. Siren, to complete your research, you might want to read the detailed, opinionated guides to boots, boot fitting and bindings available on the Carver\'s Almanac site . There is so much info there, after you read it the only thing left to do is fly into action. And here\'s an interesting thread from the BomberOnline site about ski boots vs. alpine boarding hardboots. Hey, this is getting pretty good. Is it snowing yet? Link to post Share on other sites
peaker 0 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Im looking at getting hardboots this year for my splitboard. Climbing in softboots really sucks in ski mode. Im wondering if Alpine Touring boots will fit a snowboard hardboot binding. If so I could get in a bit of carving after work on the same boots as the splitboard. Carving boards look like a heap of fun up here in Sapporo at night when everything sets up icy hard and there are not many people out. Anyone know if ski boots fit into snowboard bindings? Ski bootts seem to have forward lean , Is this a problem for boarding? Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Peaker, click on the blue "here's an interesting thread" link in the post immediately above yours...seems ski boots do fit but there are a lot of issues including sole length, forward lean and slippery soles. Link to post Share on other sites
peaker 0 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Right, I see What you're taking about. The "interesting thread" blue thing links to another forum page. The "boots What are the differences" thread has some good info. Sorry, I missed that the first time. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Not at all! I just found it this morning and had exactly the same question as you. I wouldn't mind having hard boots that I could use for both skiing and alpine boarding...it's all about the money I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Miltie, good info, thanks (I love it when somebody takes the time to answer every question in turn!) Thanks too for the offer of a board. I'm afraid that only raises another question - does the size/weight ratio apply equally to alpine boards as to freeride boards? I ride a 169 freeride board which suits me fine, so I wonder what a 162 alpine board would be like. Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted October 1, 2003 Author Share Posted October 1, 2003 Hi Miltie, Big thanks for the information – it answered so many questions that I have had since thinking about moving to alpine board two years ago. It was a quantum leap up the learning curve. Bad, Thanks for the Carver’s Almanac – I haven’t had a close look yet but there is so much information. We fear your research power, Bad! Miltie, the one I bought is the Accel 5694 T-1 i.e. 156 cm. Yes, I quite like the design of the Moss brand even though reviews in Japanese magazines did not rate its board (in terms of performance) as highly as e.g. Ogasaka or Yonex. I agree with what you say about Yahoo! Japan Auction and was telling Ocean and Bad exactly the same thing. I’ll try it out and see if I can get a decent pair of bindings from there and try to set it up myself – it should be fun. For the boots, I think I feel more comfortable if I can try them out before I buy them. Do you think it is worth investing in a pair of slightly pricey boots – i.e. does it really make that much difference or it is just marketing? Thanks for the tip on Nomugitoge – I have not heard of it before but it sounds like a great place (I look up http://www.vill-nagawa.jp/ski/nomugi.htm) with a 4,000 m run. Is it too steep for a beginner? I will check it out next time I am in Nagano. Hope they would lift the restrictions on the expert runs soon. Will keep you posted. Thanks again Siren Link to post Share on other sites
Miltie 0 Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Ocean, Answer to your question.. does the size/weight ratio apply equally to alpine boards as to freeride boards? I ride a 169 freeride board which suits me fine, so I wonder what a 162 alpine board would be like. Alpine boards generally have a longer contact length (length that rides on the snow - sometimes referred to as "effective edge") than a freeride board. For instance your 169 board probably has a contact length of around 130 to 135 cm. The Burton 162 I mentioned has a 142 cm contact length. When I started riding alpine stuff I lived in Utah and rode mostly like 170 to 175 cm freeride boards. My first carving board was a Nidecker Magnum 153 with a 140 cm contact length (very small nose and almost no tail). It took me about half a day to get used to that board - it was a rocket. I now ride alpine boards from 162 to 175 cm depending conditions. My recommendation would be to start on a around a 160 or so. Other things to consider when selecting an alpine board is sidecut radius and stiffness. Let me know if you want more info on this. I could scan some info I have and send it to you via email. Hope this helps. Siren, About your question.. Do you think it is worth investing in a pair of slightly pricey boots – i.e. does it really make that much difference or it is just marketing? First off.. I totally agree with you that it would be better to try on boots before purchase. Second.. Look for median priced boots. Some of the higher priced boots are stiff (something you might not like if you are just starting out). I would for look some Raichle SB series boots which are middle of the road as far as stiffness - look for the 4 buckle ones. My experience with the SB series has been great. Think I am using SB325 model now (a couple of years old - my 4th set). Most of the SB series boot shells are similar so the difference in cost is the liners. Thermoflex liners will run you extra but you may find they fit better if you get them molded. Hope you are able to find something you find comfortable. One other recommendation I have is to take your alpine gear and your freeride stuff to the mountain if you have room in the car. Ride the apline stuff in the morning - it will wear you out the first few days. You can ride your freeride stuff in the afternoon after your legs are toasted. Happy carving!! Miltie Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Miltie, thanks for that. I just asked Donek what size Axis they would recommend, and they suggest anything between 172 to 177. But as I told them I would definitely want to ride it in powder (fit to drown in!), I'm assuming they're taking into account the need for flotation. The Axis and bindings together would come to $844. Gosh, and I'm not even sure if I like it yet... So, that means now I'm very interested in your generous offer of that 162 that is gathering dust. Would you care to PM or email me about it? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Grinch 0 Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 $844?! Egads. Erm...Mr. Ocean, have you reckoned on the possibility that the Donek building may have a chimney? Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 What? No poem today, Master G? Miltie, many thanks for the extra tips! Good to know the difference between the SB and AF boots. Re bindings, the TD step-ins looks great. Unhappily they are not available now. I will check with Bomher store to see when they are availble again. Do you think it is worthwhile getting the X-bone. I can't wait to get to the mountain now. By the way, has anyone been to Whistler in November. It seems that it has 200 cm snow even in November and H.I.S is offering 54k to Vancouver. Siren Link to post Share on other sites
NoFakie 45 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 We were thinking of going to Canada for our honeymoon early last season. Our friends from Hakuba were at Whistler from late November for three weeks. In the end, they put in only seven days in due to the lack of snow. At the same time, things were going off far earlier than normal here, so we were pleased we didn't go to Canada. The first snow this season fell on Shirouma (one of the mountains behind Tsugaike) on September 30. Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 Thanks, NoFakie! Pleased to hear the early snow fall in Shirouma! Middle of last November we went to Karuizawa and only one run was open with a bit of help from the snow-making machine. It was hilarious going down the run and watching people play tennis 20 yards away. Still it was a fun day. For those who are interested, Gassan (http://www5a.biglobe.ne.jp/~aaa0004/next/ski-5.html ) in Yamagata-ken is open from April to June. I read in a magazine (in an article about spring ski) that there is so much snow that they only open the place in April! I have not been there but will probably give it a try the coming May. Bestest, Siren Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Siren, five stars for the enthusiasm! But November in Whistler is just too early. Once in awhile they may have some dump or other so people can slide, but I wouldn't even book an advance trip their in December. Just too risky, esp. with the bizarrely different weather we've had in the US/Canada these past few years. Better stick to January through mid-March, if you want the best snow. Abnormal dumps may change things, but the peak season is the peak season, and if you are betting a week and an international trip on it, you should go for the peak season. This is why your HIS tickets are seeming to be a good deal. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 Thanks Bad for the tip. Good advice. I have quite a bit of annual leave left for this year and was just mulling over the Whistler idea but you are right, flying 16 hours just to find no snow is too much for anyone. Siren Link to post Share on other sites
Miltie 0 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Siren, About the Bomber Step-In bindings... I have both the Bomber Trench Diggers and the TD Step-Ins. My setup is a little awkward because I use a normal Trench Digger binding in the front and a TD Step-In binding in the rear. You don't really detach your front boot that much during the day so that's why I use the normal binding in front. The TD Step-In system is really great for convenience - less bending down. Don't know too much about the X-Bones, however, would bet they are decent since they are made by Raichle. They are probably a little more flexible than the Bombers. One thing you will want to make sure is that you can get Intec heels before you make your decision. Looks like Bomber is currently sold out of Intec heels. Bomber usually receives stock of bindings and other associated parts around October. Check back with them in a few weeks. FYI - they are really helpful if you have questions about their products. Take care, Miltie Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted October 12, 2003 Author Share Posted October 12, 2003 Went to Jinbocho again this afternoon and found that the Minami shop stocks quite a wide range of boots and bindings other than Deeluxe and the price seems much more reasonable. It made me wonder why a big store like Viento stocks mainly Deeluxe brand. They should realise this is the internet age and it is a foolhardy marketing strategy to think that they can limit customer choice by trying to peddle a particular brand at an unreasonable premium. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I went to Alpen in Matsuyama yesterday, and found that the girl in charge of the boots section hadn't even heard of hard boots for snowboards. Naturally they don't have 'em... This is going to be the long dark road that I fully expected. Link to post Share on other sites
Miltie 0 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Siren, I agree with you man! Having worked in the retail snowboard business in the US for a few years, I must say the retail system in Japan is much different than what I am used to. Seems like it's all about maintaining the highest possible profit margin even if the stuff sits on the shelf for a few years. Noticed this with most sports equipment I've looked at (mostly surf and snowboard gear). On the other hand, you can find smoking deals if you shop around a bit. Think the bigger and chain type stores are figuring this out. Makes me wonder how much people in Japan shop around or if they buy things from certain shops so they can say they bought it there. Regardless, it is different than what I'm used to. Think in general that you will find Carving gear in Japanese shops is priced high since it is considered "specialty" gear. There isn't much competition between shops so the prices remain high. Freestyle and Freeride gear is available at many places with a lot of retail competition. The prices are still high but a little more reasonable. Just FYI - check out www.carvingmachine.com There is a lot of info about Carving in Japan. Regards, Miltie Link to post Share on other sites
badmigraine 0 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Ocean, are you hoping for a particular brand of hardboots, or are you wanting to try on several kinds if possible to see how they feel, then maybe buy your favorite ones as cheaply as possible, perhaps online? I'm thinking of sussing out some alpine gear around here in Michigan, and if I end up making a drive somewhere, maybe I could check something out for you. Aren't you currently rocking Burton soft boots? What US size? Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 Hi Miltie! Having said what I said about Viento, I won't underestimate the research power of a big company like Victoria (which owns Viento). They have probably done their maths and figured if they can dupe x number of gullible punters to make an impulsive purchase each year, they can maintain the high margin. In addition, most of the profits would probably come from the high volume freestyle goods rather than the alpine stuffs which are offered just to set them apart from the smaller shops in the area. But you are right. Generally I think Japanese consumers don't have much of a chance against the big price-fixing companies. To be fair, with a few exceptions, most of the shops here are honest and very helpful and if you have a problem after making a purchase, they will go the extra mile to help you out or to replace the goods for you. Siren Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted October 14, 2003 Author Share Posted October 14, 2003 Not entirely relevant the subject under discussion but try this out. http://www.bolle.com/xboarder/xboarder.htm Take a while to load but it is fun/free. Link to post Share on other sites
Siren 0 Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 Ocean/Bad, Apparently these are this year's latest. Good looking but not cheap http://www.shr-binding.com/shr.html Siren Link to post Share on other sites
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