Ezorisu 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Saw some video on the news of the Sea Shepherd ship ramming whatever that Japanese "whaling research vessel" is down near Antarctica. Any thoughts on this? Regardless of whether whaling/"whale research" is "right" or "wrong", I think ramming another ship on the open seas is F-ed up and not a legitimate, civilized way of getting the point across. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Wasn't the ram from last year? They are making themselves look stupid I think. The new footage of them boarding the whaling vessel and turning and whooping to the camera made them look like yobbos to me. They claim they were trying to pass on a letter to the captain, but it looked more like theatrics to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Domokun_72dpi 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Just more BS getting out of hand. The Japanese fleet/government don't seem give a toot about what the rest of the world thinks, so GreenPeace is having to "up-the ante" so to speak. If it was up to me, I would have torpeedoed the Japanese vessel (cept that would leak crap into the ocean). It's just a sad situation, with conflicts of beliefs & opinions that is goingn to turn nasty, but it'sd better than sitting down silently and crying about it. Thanks for this post, reminds me I better post of my monetary donation to greenpeace so they can keep going... PS, and yes, being yobbos, is a VERY bad look for Australia... Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 What the rest of the world thinks? Try the few REALLY vocal countries. I am not for whaling, but the lines that get spewed out in the media in Auys and then bandied around make me laugh. Things like, "It's against international law" IF it was, then there would be means for actually getting it stopped. Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 so it is not in breach of international law? i'm no authority on the subject but i thought the federal court just handed down a judgement that it was illegal, but japan are disputing Australia's sovereignity over antartic waters? it is hard to see an end to this - japan can't back down now because it would be an admission that their stance is wrong. too much face would be lost. likewise greenpeace and other environmental organisations can't be seen to lessen the pressure. as a diplomatic incident i find it very interesting. being a fly on the wall at DFAT right now would be fascinating Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 No, Japan sees that as applying to Australians in Australia. And their whaling is not in breach of any international laws at all. IT is simply going against a voluntary moratorium put in place by the IWC. Japan could have done what Norway did and just say "Screw you! We are withdrawing from the IWC and doing our own thing." Instead, they choose to stay in it and try to come to a consensus about it. Don't get me wrong here. I think the whaling should be stopped, but it's not like our side is totally rational and doesn't let emotions drive the issue. Isn't the law about international waters and countries' sovereignty something like within 200 km of the coast. How can Aus claim to have sovereignty to all that area of water?? Sound rather colonial to me. Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 i dunno. i avoided international law at uni cos it seemed too hard! someone with more knowledge on the subject should pipe up! i could be well wrong here, but i thought antarctica was governed by multiple states and australia enforces fishing zones maybe? Link to post Share on other sites
Domokun_72dpi 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Bottom line. If these whales are in Japanese waters, then no-one in the world has the right to say boo. The fact that they are chasing them around the globe $hit$ me. I'm not going to get over-emotional on this one (you guys already know how passionate I am about this subject). Still think greenpeace should fit the whales with laser cannons.... Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Australia claims zones, which were recognized under a treaty signed by those other countries who also wanted in back 80 years ago or so. This explains the international waters thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters Quote: A state's territorial sea extends up to 12 nautical miles from its baseline. Quote: An exclusive economic zone extends for 200 nautical miles (370 km) beyond the baselines of the territorial sea, thus it includes the territorial sea and its contiguous zone.[3] A coastal nation has control of all economic resources within its exclusive economic zone, including fishing, mining, oil exploration, and any pollution of those resources. However, it cannot regulate or prohibit passage or loitering above, on, or under the surface of the sea, whether innocent or belligerent, within that portion of its exclusive economic zone beyond its territorial sea. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 see my post above domon. Australia really has no control (or right to it) over the massive area that the Japanese vessels are hunting in. Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 this just happened (again) yesterday or today didnt it?? not ramming but harassing and 2 members got onto the Japanese boat and are now held hostage They should force the 2 blokes to eat natto!! Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 They boarded the JApanese boat! Fair enough for the JApanese to hold them until they will guarantee not to play silly buggers again! I laughed when the captain told the media that they would be even offered the chance to try whale meat if they wanted to! Nice touch! Link to post Share on other sites
Domokun_72dpi 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I'm not disputing anything here BP, in fact, Greenpeace prolly are being thugs. I am just a greenie @ heart, and it saddens me to see such amazing animals slaughetered. Now, if only greenpeace could get some suicide bombers to work with them..... Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Yeah well as I have repeatedly said, I share your sentiments Domokun. I just wish that Our side would take a step off the emotion pedal and approach this rationally without all the hyperbole. Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 i understand international waters... but what's in question is australia enforcing the antarctic fishing zone, which is something different i could be very wrong, but isn't antarctica governed by a muilti-nation body, and australia has a role in protecting designate fishing zones? hence they can legally go after poachers taking patagonian tooth fish or protected tuna etc? Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 yep, there are issues there for sure spook. I have heard JApan say repeatedly that they are breaking no international law. And I suspect that if they were, there would have been legal action, as happened with the tuna issue a couple of years back. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 This is the Green Industry exposing itself yet again, as making claims which have no foundations in science or "Legal" truth. (Truth does not exist in Science). (I think whaling is barbaric and totally un-needed. I think Japan is wrong). Firstly there are two Green vessels on the scene. The Greenpeice vessel is the Esperanza, and taking an observing role. The active boat is the MV STEVE IRWIN, of the California-based Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. If I had a budget to send a vessel to sea in the southern oceans for two months, I would have no problems filling it with scientists looking for opportunities to do research. Is the Minke whale population threatened by whaling? Scientific answer: no. Green answer: You don't do what we say so die you bastards. Beware Greens wearing science. They only use it to lie. Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 and japan's "scientific research" is not a lie?. there is no need to conduct lethal research the problem is both sides have many flaws in their stances Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 they do spook. But the JApanese do believe they are conducting research. They do it for those purposes. Not as the media says "as cover for food harvesting." Whether killing them for research is a necessary means is another question. But they are doing it with the intention of research. It is not a lie on their part at all. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I don't trust Japanese research. Fullstop. I trust the Greens less. Note my point. If I had the Research Funds to send a vessel to the Southern Seas for 2 months, There would be no shortage of scientists looking for a ride. The Green organisations claim science, but they play politics. For the 100th time I'm speaking as a professional scientist to say that Greenpiece and it's offspring are Political and not Scientific. Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I don't trust the research either soub, but they do it for research purposes, not as a cover for something else. The results may be useless and dodgy, but that again is a different matter. And yeah, surely other research to counter the arguments could be funded and carried out by those with the money. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 If Greenpiece were a serious Scientific organisation, it would undertake and publish scientific research under critical scrutiny. It does neither. Assertion wins it with the conspiracists every time. Demonstration of probability is boring science. Take the easy way: be against it! Link to post Share on other sites
bobby12 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Why is whaling banned generally? Are the whales in danger of extinction? Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 They were years ago after overfishing for the blubber. Now the stocks have somewhat recovered, and that is really what should be the center of debate here, not how cute, cuddly or beautiful they are. Link to post Share on other sites
soubriquet 0 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 If the Australian Greens had a clue about what they are spending their money on, it would be salination and deforesteation. Oz likes to lead the world, and in terms of environmental harm, the Murray-Darling is one of the World's leading basket cases. If the Green Industry was interested in managing outcomes, blind Freddie can see where the priorities are. Blind Freddie can also see that the Ozzie Greens trip over dead kangaroos and salted soil to see the Japs as the Environmental Bastards. It's easy to blame others, particularly when you're Green. Link to post Share on other sites
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