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keba

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Posts posted by keba

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: nuejam
    'Foreigners' overrun with misconceptions of the orient invade Niseko looking for a past that was never there -- meanwhile Nozawa tourists ignore the hypermaterialistic present of Japanese cultural arbiters, young people modeling the latest snowboard gear and snow wear, and see instead the fictitious reality half of their own making half a marketing campaign directed towards urbanized youth fed off of soda-pop dreams of nostalgia.


    That's called juxtaposition, and is kind of cute in it's own way.

    Originally Posted By: nuejam
    Next time I visit Australia I'll be sure to post some nasty comment asking why it is that a country with aboriginal culture whored itself out to the international opera community instead of fighting the good fight alongside the Mennonites and the Amish. Why oh why did they adopt a hackneyed offshoot of English culture when they cannot even get the accent right!? It's a shame they didn't stay in the Bush, oh those romantic noble savages!


    I'm an educated man, but that went way over my head... wakaranai

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: Mamabear
    Snow resorts are snow resorts...some have better service and infrastructure than others, but why you would expect the SKI resort to be different to a western resort is beyond me.


    Well for one, I thought Nozawa Onsen was very different to any resort town I'd ever stayed at before, and I thought Niseko was just like Whistler. Sure, I don't expect the lift system to be exotic or culturally unique, any more than the highways or airports. But I think you should distinguish the towns which have grown around the ski resort, from towns that were there before, which just happen to exist next to a mountain that is skiable. You can feel the difference between them, if you let yourself. Remember, skiing, even in Western culture is a relatively recent phenomenon, and there are many places in the world that have existed far longer than people have been lifted up the slopes.

    I'll concede that Niseko isn't one of them, and who should really cares how much development goes on there, and how many foreign tourists it attracts? Except the locals who rely on it for income, of course.

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: Go Native
    I agree with RD on this. You never see people complaining about lack of culture from any other ski areas around the world. At least I haven't.


    Yeah, but other ski resorts - at least the ones I've skied in - are in western countries, and I really don't expect Western Europe to be much different from America/Canada or Australia, except for regional cuisine/wine/cheeses, and language of course. I just expect Japanese ski areas to have a perceptibly different vibe, and I'd expect the same in China, Korea, or any other non-western country. I suppose I shouldn't.

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
    let me calrify this a litte - places like nozawa, which was a spa town before it was a ski town have a little something extra, as does hakuba and probably a others but they're the exception.


    And guess what, RD, when we were last in Hakuba, that's exactly what we did. We took a day to go back to Nozawa Onsen to show off our little boy to our old hosts from a couple of years back, and soak up some of the village atmosphere. No skiing. Get that? We went to Nozawa Onsen and didn't ski. We also visited the snow monkeys another day and drove to Nagano, visited the shrine there, did some shopping for art prints and ate some Manju cake. We were in Hakuba for 13 days, and skied for 7 of those. It isn't everything, you know.

    Don't try and tell me you can't mix a ski trip with enjoying the other things Japan, or any destination, has to offer. You holiday how you like, and I'll continue to do it my way.

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    There you go, didn't realise that at all GN. I just assumed it was all part of the old feudal system that existed on the other islands. It did seem odd to me tht Sapporo should be laid out like it is. Quick google search leads me to discover the Ainu, the indigenous people of Hokkaido, who would probably take offence to your comments, much as an Aboriginal Australian would about the same being said of Australia. But now we're way off thread...

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
    The family angle for Niseko is a recent innovation. In 2005 there wasn't anything around


    In 2005 I was single and had no children, and I went to Niseko because that's where my friends were going, and we stayed in a pension run by a very nice Japanese couple. Prior to that, we had spent two weeks in Nozawa Onsen, and it just seemed very different.

    It is probably obvious by now that I just have a chip on my shoulder about development in tourist areas everywhere, not just Niseko. Take a nice place to visit, and then develop the hell out of it until it becomes an unrecognisable parody of what it was before. How about the idea of cultural eco-tourism? Try and enjoy what's there and leave it just as it is. I do concede that ski resorts aren't a Japanese cutural relic, but a place like Nozawa seems to coexist with the ski resort without having lost its onsen village atmosphere.

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
    Out of interest just because it is Friday and I'm bored - what evidence do you have of greedy developers in Niseko exploiting unimaginative Aussies?


    The ads in Aussie ski mags looking for buyers for their properties is the only evidence I have of that from my end.

    Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
    Oh those greedy developers! Knocking down this junk and building something that looks like it belongs in the 21st cent.


    If we are going to have a discussion about architectural trends or building standards in the resorts then we'll go way off-thread. But aren't they just leaving the old junk, and building new stuff around it? And who's to say the 21st century stuff looks any better, that's a matter of taste.

    I would much rather stay in a Minshuku in Nozawa Onsen, than an apartment in the new developments in the Hanazono area of Niseko. That's just my preference, and can't be argued. When travelling with children, though, as I usually have to do, the former is obviously more convenient, and that is why Niseko has become so popular in Australia. It's marketed as the family destination.

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
    two distinct groups of people


    That's an oversimplification. For my own part, I've never booked a package deal with an agent/tour company and never plan to. I book my own accomodation direct with the lodge owner, when possible, and hire a car or use public transportation. I try to look for resorts, and accomodation within those resorts, which is in keeping with the local custom, and I don't like to hang out with other travelling Aussies (my own travel companions excluded) after dark, if I go out at all. I have skied in other resorts in Japan, this season giving Furano a shot, not sure yet for next time around. I reserve the right to bitch about the hordes of unimaginative Aussies doing it the easy way, and also about the greedy developers who are quick to see an easy buck in exploiting them.

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
    Keba if the 2005 level of development was too much I have to wonder why you went at all.


    Perhaps I exagerrated. What I didn't like was the way it is being bought up by Aussie developers, marketing to Aussie investors. That will inevitably ruin any of the intrinsic "Japaneseness" of the resort. I realise withourt foreign investment nothing would be happening at all, like in Hakuba (flame-proof suit on wink ), but unlike GoNative, a big part of the reason I travel to Japan is to try and experience some of the local culture, not just the snow.

    NHK report on Niseko in the poo

    in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry

    Posted

    Originally Posted By: Rag-Doll
    I’m sure others would say it has already happened…


    I'm one of those, and I've only ever skied there once, in Feb '05. There was too much development then for my tastes. But I live on the Gold Coast, like snowhunter, and have seen what that sort of developmnet can do to the ambience of a holiday destination of any kind. Good for the local economy, sure, but for me, that's not really what it's all about. You can lose the character of the place, the reason it became popular in the first place. Of course, if you limit development too much in the face of overwhelming demand, you end up with an enclave for only the super-rich.

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