tripitaka
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Posts posted by tripitaka
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Originally Posted By: stemikYes it is financial....they hope to find a buyer for the season following this one.
It's a real shame for Sun Alpina and Sanosaka in particular.
It's going to make it tough for them. I always like the "vibe" over there: people are friendly and a bit more "Japanese" with the emphasis on family. I always thought the food was good too. -
Originally Posted By: skidaisukiAnswer: depends what level of ability you are, and when you're going.
I've skiied both and Iwatake is better - it is on average slightly higher and more exposed, with more interesting runs. Sun Alpina is a good mid-season resort when there's been plenty of snow and it's also in shade for most of the day which is a plus. On the minus side it offers very little challenge for intermediate & advanced skiiers - but for beginners there are plenty of wide and gentle pistes which I've never seen crowded.
Mid-season, Sun Alpina is well worth the effort if you want to avoid the sort of crowds that you always get on weekends at Goryu's main piste in front of Escal Plaza, for example.
SdS
That's my take on it as well, but there's actually some great tree skiing over on the Kashi side. It also is sheltered to some degree from strong winds when it's havoc over at G/47 and Happo (apparently). -
Originally Posted By: stemikSun ALpina is the three resorts of Sanosaka, Aokiko & Kashimayari.
This season Aokiko will not be opening, therefore breaking the Sun Alpina link. (Aokiko is in the middle).
There are no shuttle buses running to Kashimayari from the main Hakuba accommodation areas. (There is a train)
What's the deal with Aokiko? That messes it up for SO and KI. -
Don't worry. I think you'll find plenty of natural kickers you can find if you're strapped in tightly.
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One of the local property companies in Hakuba is run by a Kiwi and he employs people to manage lodges, etc. If you picked up a job like that, you would get accommodation provided and probably a ski pass, plus you get to meet many fellow Aussies. I've also heard that working for the resorts in Japan is a real killer and you risk the opportunity of getting pissed off and frustrated quickly. You could try asking for a job at the Tracks pub but I'd imagine that there are plenty of people wanting to work there.
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Originally Posted By: TJ OZ
following the lines of many threads lately.
Any other choices for best beginner areas.
Dude, relax. It's a big country and there are many options, so the more suggestions and opinions the better. -
How about the Sun-Alpina resorts in the Hakuba valley? I would think they would be pretty good for a beginner (cheaper too). You also get much terrain with the three resort ticket. Also, all the cowboys avoid it because it's a family-focused resort. Best and cheapest on-mountain food and most attitude-free staff. It also has mens day every Weds for 2100 yen.
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Originally Posted By: Go NativeThey'd be giggling more if people were actually buying the apartments!
Imagine if the developers of The Vale told their core financiers and investors that money or ROI doesn't equate to happiness! Bernie Madoff could have tried that as a last-gasp defense. -
Originally Posted By: womQuote:The dream is to make a living out of what you love doing then it is not really work.
This.
You've all heard it and thought it is a horrible cliche - but it's so true.
I consider myself so unbelievably lucky that I get paid (well) to do what I would do for free anyway. Seriously, every so often I just sit back and think "how good is this?"
P.S. Tripitaka: regarding your name - I just visited the temple where the sutras are stored from the real life version of the story I'm assuming your name comes from
I hear you Wom. Doing what you love is great, but even if you don't love what you do, I think you can get satisfaction from it. It's all a state of mind.
I took my name from the Monkey Magic show. Tripitaka was the most peaceful pilgrim who always wanted to help. -
Originally Posted By: Go NativeIt all comes down to what makes you happy. If you need a great big yacht or a high end expensive car, or a stupidly expensive watch, a huge house etc, etc then you'll need to earn quite a bit of money to be happy. Luckily I don't need anything like that and in Hokkaido all the big expense stuff that keeps so many in debt for much of their lives, like houses and cars are just stupidly cheap.
tripitaka it used to cost me a lot to ski in Niseko when I came here as a tourist but since selling up everything in Aus and moving here I now get paid to live in the place I used to save all year to come on holiday! I make a lot less money but I'm a hell of a lot happier, especially since an All Mountain season pass is part of my salary package. Doesn't get better than that now does it?
And all power to you GN. -
Originally Posted By: MamabearI think the saying that best describes that Trip is:
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a huge great big yacht so you can sail right up and damn near touch it"
The point is people require money to purchase stuff.
First of all the necessities of life.
Once they are taken care of there is 'disposable income' - I think it is this disposable portion we are talking about more than the cash you require to feed the family.
Someone who collects their money and works all day and night x 365 days of the year but doesn't ENJOY it - that's sad. Sometimes ya gotta accept that by enjoying it, you end up earning a little less (coz you are off skiing!) - that's good.
I know what you're saying Mama; however, some people make sacrifices like working their butts off to provide things like security for family, etc and don't have flash yachts, skiing holidays in Niseko, etc. even though they might be able to afford it. I don't know if I call that "sad." I always believe that those with money need to understand how lucky they are. Even in our relatively privileged Western world, a little humility always goes a long way. -
I disagree somewhat. I think money does equate to happiness. At the end of the day, most people who can spend time skiing in Japan are definitely "privileged" in my books and have access to more money than the vast majority of human beings.
Try telling someone in the 3rd World that "money doesn't equal happiness" when that person's struggling to feed his family and trying to live a semblance of life with some self respect.
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Does anyone know if there are places to stay in both these areas for around the 5000 yen mark? I want to spend some days in either around Dec 23-30.
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Originally Posted By: Go NativeNo idea what you mean by that
What do they all have in common? Plenty of guys with white shoes trying to sell you a dream. -
Originally Posted By: Go NativeJust do a search for real estate Niseko and there'll be plenty of sites come up.
Typically a good sign of where not to invest is to do look at multiple counts on hits for a location and real estate. You have the usual suspects: Gold Coast, Dubai, Miami, Vegas, Fiji. I don't want to add Hakuba and Niseko to that list! -
Originally Posted By: thursdayoh dear, so many relevant questions and so little incentive to answer.
I would never hint or advise people what to do with their money if not paid to do so.
This conversation was going on 3 years ago. And it is still going on in the same vein. Nice.....
And if you were paid Thursday? You would tell them to pour their life savings into a condo in Northern Japan? -
Originally Posted By: Go NativeIn the US after their 'credit-driven bubble' as you put it, plenty of people have swooped in to pick up bargains in the aftermath. Some of that has been occurring here too (although prices haven't dropped all that much). Obviously if you believe, as I do, that prices will eventually go up again then this may not be a bad strategy. The risk involved in investing in Niseko currently really depends on the individual investor.
There's no reason in my mind to think that prices won't increase once again here. It's doubtful we'll ever see the heady days of prices near doubling each year again but I can't see any reason why more modest growth could not be expected. Bookings are through the roof compared to last year and from questions I receive almost daily I'd say investor interest is growing once again as well.
Tripitaka in the initial 3-4 years most of the investment and development here certainly was driven by the Aussie market. In the last couple of years though as prices got much higher investment really started coming mostly from Asia. And I suspect much of the furture investment here will be driven from this market. It's not a market short on cash.
GN, I think that it is a generally accepted fact that the global property bubble was driven by excess liquidity and easy access to credit. As you say, prices doubled but productivity and incomes didn't double so if you think about it logically...
Everything else you say I agree with, particularly with regards to investment being an individual decision and Asia having the best potential for future investment. -
Originally Posted By: Go NativeMr Wiggles I like to look at a resort like Whistler as a good example of a successful international ski resort. The property market there has gone through major ups and downs over the last 20 or so years but like most property markets the next up was always more than the previous one. No property market in the world just goes endlessly up without there ever being a period where growth declines momentarily or stagnates for awhile. Certainly if you bought a new property in Niseko currently you would not expect rapid capital growth in the next few years like there was over the last few years. Longer term though I see no reason why demand will not grow again and prices rise once more. Any investment is a risk, some get in at the right time and some encouraged by the 'hype' often get in late in the cycle and can be caught out if they were looking for a quick turnaround profit on their investment. That doesn't mean it's a really bad time to be buying in the area. As long as you have a longer term outlook then with some of the resale bargains going at the moment you could still do very well out of purchasing now. Unlike most property investment in Japan it's not the rental return you worry about it's the potential capital returns where the real profit is made.
No disrespect, but you say that you can "see no reason why demand will not grow again and prices rise once more." Wouldn't you agree that any investor worth his salt would also asked the opposite question: "What is the risk involved with prices not growing and prices not rising?" That's the question that usually trips up the property salespeople and estate agents. -
I think Wiggles has summed this up well. I can't see why Niseko is different from anywhere else in the world, including resorts as I pointed out in the case of Queenstown (which is an entirely different league as a tourist destination). Here's some of my perceptions:
-- Niseko has been driven by Aussie investment and development, pure and simple. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but there are attitudes towards property in Australia that are somewhat unique, particularly the hoopla about capital gains. It was exactly the same with QT until people realized that easy credit was driving development, not long-term sustainability or even medium-term demand.
-- The developers have made the best return in Niseko and will continue to profit through property management. Is there anything wrong with that? No, but as Wigs points out, there is significant risk involved for the "lifestyle investor." I'm skeptical that one can balance investments with lifestyle. Think time share. Think Glengarry Glen Ross. Those with the moolah don't need their holiday home to provide a ROI, and those that do need to start seriously thinking about due diligence.
-- "It's never a bad time to buy property" is a cliche that deserves particular scorn during the aftermath of arguably the greatest credit-driven bubble in human history. There will be those who will argue the stars are aligned for Niesko, and I hope they are right, but right now I would think Niseko property is for the wealthy, not the keen skier who is looking to fund their vacation and make a buk at the same time.
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Originally Posted By: MamabearNot living there, but I do believe there is a thriving industry in the summer - white water rafting and MTB activities to start with.
Also a fair few Japanese not prepared to go oversea's for the 'Western' Experience coming up to stay in a "western Apartment' during summer...
Just what I have been told...
Wear and tear. You got it there. But if one was considering investing in any ski property the problems would be the same - one of maintenance. You would be mad to go into something without realizing there are ongoing costs as well as potential income.
All good points Mama. All stuff that you could do in Aussie or NZ though, and I'm not sure that rafters or MTBers are a key target for renting luxury condos.
If I were going to buy property in Japan, I would go for something very cheap in Okinawa or Miyazaki near the ocean. -
Originally Posted By: GtrainMost people in Niseko are genrally speaking not geared too high as you said Mamabear. I have heard of a couple of people over here that had Yen loans and went pretty pale when the AUD crashed. Pretty much over night the banks came knocking and asking for more security (property)to put against their loans.
What would put me off about buying an "investment" in Niseko is that I think the chances of letting the property outside the ski season are limited. Secondly, I doubt that many people really understand the wear and tear that a harsh environment can have on a property. That's what I've seen with a lot of existing property in Japan. People just get fed up and walk away. -
Originally Posted By: Go NativeWell credit was never easy to get here. For those of us living here it is damned near impossible to get any credit from Japanese banks. The only way we could get credit was if we had property in Australia, we could borrow against the equity in that property for a purchase here through a couple of the Aussie banks, although that is no longer available. Before the GFC they were just about to allow us to borrow against equity in housing we owned in Japan as well but that too is no longer available.
So most buyers now are cashed up Asians who have organised credit through their own banks or are so cashed up they don't actually need credit.
The Vale is owned almost exclusively by Chinese investors.
Yeah, but if you think about it, Aussie banks lending for resort properties in Japan (a country where property has been falling for 20-odd years) shows just how much of a casino it's been. In the case of Queenstown, which is much more significant for the NZ economy, much financing was coming from dodgy finance companies as opposed to banks with solid Tier 1 capital.
It is interesting that Chinese investment is involved. Makes we wonder what exactly they have planned in the future. -
Originally Posted By: Go NativeQuote:That doesn't surprise me. Is it similar to Queenstown where the developers were the ones making the money while the "investors" were the ones who got burnt? Comparing QT with Niseko is a bit difficult though as both offer quite different things and QT is probably got a lot more going for it than snow. However, it's interesting to note that the property market is struggling big-time now, but that's probably not a surprise to those who didn't buy into the hype.
It wasn't hype until the global financial crisis hit. I myself invested up here and luckily sold just before the crisis and did very well out of it. Many investors did extremely well, especially those who bought in 5 or 6 years ago. In those early years prices were going up 50%+ per year. Plenty of people made a lot of money, that wasn't hype it was reality. And it definitely wasn't just developers making it.
If you had have bought last year before the crisis at the height of the market sure you'd struggle to get your money back now but hey Niseko isn't the only place in the world where that's the case currently.
Well nowhere was "hype" until the GFC hit, but the property boom in all countries has been driven by easy credit. Sure, plenty of people made stacks of money, but you have to balance that with the stacks of people who lost money. That may or may not have happened in Niseko (I don't know), but I do know more renowned resorts such as QT have taken massive hits because of over-development and any hopes of recovery are just pure speculation right now. -
Originally Posted By: thursdayOriginally Posted By: tripitakaWho would have thought this project would have been possible after the global financial crisis and the property crash? Personally I wouldn't pay those prices in Japan but I guess this is targeted towards the Australian market where property investment is still seen as a no-brainer.
No it's not. Australian buyers had already gotten in. Alot have already gotten out and made some.
That doesn't surprise me. Is it similar to Queenstown where the developers were the ones making the money while the "investors" were the ones who got burnt? Comparing QT with Niseko is a bit difficult though as both offer quite different things and QT is probably got a lot more going for it than snow. However, it's interesting to note that the property market is struggling big-time now, but that's probably not a surprise to those who didn't buy into the hype.
Accomodation in Hakuba.
in Snow talk, trip reports, Japan avalanche & backcountry
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Dantk, I recommend that you try the Tracks Pub. They have decent, communal accommodation upstairs that is a 10-min walk from the plaza at Goryu. You could also try Lodge TabiTabi who will do their best to get you into a room with other solo travelers.