[Two fatalities in Niseko (late January 2013)]

Seems to me we're all pretty much on the same page.

[Two fatalities in Niseko (late January 2013)]

But mike how many 100's of thousands of people have skied out through the gates over the last decade do you think? How many have died since the introduction of the NIseko Rules? Bugger all. The Niseko Rules were negotiated after those avi deaths in Haru no taki. It took quite a number of years and negotiations. And you have to admit without the introduction of some serious control measures (which aren't likely to happen) it's a damned good idea to keep Haru no taki closed. My point is that they've had an exemplary record since the introduction of Niseko Rules. I do not believe these rules would now be abandoned purely because of one or two accidents. They also realise I'm sure how much of the success of the resort is due to their liberal off-piste and sidecountry access. As I've said before my views on this would be completely different if Niseko was like some other ski areas that regularly had numerous avi deaths every season. Thing is even with the dramatic increase in people skiing out through the gates over the last decade there hasn't been any corresponding increase in the amount of fatalities. Pretty good indication of the sound management of the gate system and relative safety of the Niseko snowpack as a whole.

 

 

Go Native, I appreciate your perspective but I don't see anyone on here ratcheting up the fear factor. What I see is a bunch of people discussing real and relative risks and trying to educate themselves to stay safe and explore their boundaries. I don't see anything positive coming out of discouraging this process as long as the information being shared is accurate and reliable. I say more power to everyone involved.

 

Regarding Niseko's 'safe' slack/backcountry - I think your view is true to a large extent but I'm afraid that good stats in the past does not necessarily equate to good stats in the future. It's definitely not luck - the Niseko boundary policy is playing a significant role. But there are still inherent risks and a lot of under-prepared and under-skilled people are heading out those gates with very little appreciation of the terrain they're in. In my opinion it gives them a false sense of security about heading into more risky terrain. A lot of people cannot differentiate between slackcountry and backcountry and have no experience or education in safe BC travel and mountain/avi awareness. This affects themselves and others.

 

Boundary gate policies are a great thing and I am a big supporter but the problem as I see it is this - lifts are the easy way up, they lead to slackcountry which leads to backcountry. This leads to larger numbers of people accessing terrain that they wouldn't normally access because they either don't have the strength/fitness, skills or equipment. The result I think is that accidents are inevitable. I am OK with this BTW because I am all for taking responsibility for your own actions, but it often impacts others too.

 

The gate system at Jackson Hole is a really good example - the resort and the state forest service succumbed after years of pressure to opening the resort boundaries knowing full well that there would be implications. Not that I am comparing JH BC with Niseko BC but since the JH open boundary policy has been in place, there has been a big increase in avi deaths. It comes with the territory. Again though - personal responsibility.

 

So for me it's really clear - educate, practice, know your limits and push them, pick your days and have a bloody good time doing it.

[Two fatalities in Niseko (late January 2013)]

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I am curious about how to retrieve an unconscious person from a crack or other hole. Would you just dig from downhill like in an avalanche rescue or rope them out (I suppose this depends on how deep the hole is)? How would you attach the victim to a rope if they are deep in a hole?

 

 

 

 

Remember to keep the relative safety our sport in perspective. In Australia, only about 0.5% of snowsports participants need medical attention of any sort and as far as I know we have quite a high injury rate compared to other countries (hard snow, ice, crowded runs, inexperience, gung-ho attitude)

 

I can't speak from experience for crack rescue but have other mountain and crevasse rescue experience. In almost all rescues I have taken part, where it isn't safe to approach the casualty, a rope is involved. These are organised rescues, however similar principles apply on BC trips. Re: short rope - I don't always carry it - depends on the terrain and the intended trip. But, I have used rope for lowering an injured party down a slope; short roping someone when they're out of depth (more common than you might think); and navigation in really poor conditions. For its weight it's not a big deal to pack it but definitely up to individual preferences. And you're right - mostly it is used for others rather than yourself - just like your probe and shovel.

 

As was pointed out earlier, rescue depends on whether you can access the person safely, how deep they are, whether or not they are responsive/breathing and how many of you there are. You might be able to reach them or their skis/feet relatively easily or they may be several metres below you. Remember your first priority (after danger to yourself and others) is their airway - it overrides all their other injuries - i.e. you have to get them out as quickly as possible, clear their airway and if required commence CPR. This may require removing their helmet even if you suspect a neck injury. This is something worth practising on your friends i.e. supporting c-spine while taking of their helmet. Tricky but doable with one person; very straightforward with two.

 

Re: your question about rescuing an unconscious person: they are limp and heavy especially if lifting. Something well worth knowing is a harness from webbing. You can practice it on yourself and you should definitely practice putting it on someone else lying down. This little bit of webbing plus a locking biner could save someone's life and takes no room at all. Remember though that it's time critical and you have to make a call with DRABCs. Here's a couple of links I found quickly. There's lots of different ways to do it.

 

. http://www.animatedknots.com/harness/index.php

 

Hope this helps.

[Two fatalities in Niseko (late January 2013)]

Over the last 20 years or so I have been increasingly concerned by the numbers of people who buy a shovel, piep and probe and think they have BC/avi skills. So I am relieved to see some discussion about BC safety and awareness. The day you stop asking questions is the day you get into strife.

 

Jackson1996, I would like to ask you some questions if you don't mind:

 

Do you know how the skier you mentioned fell in the crack?

Was he skiing alone?

Did somebody see him fall?

How long was he in the crack for?

How was he removed from the crack (you said he was unconscious so I am assuming he was unable to assist with the rescue)?

 

Besniwood, it was concealed by a deep layer of fresh snow. I do not know the skier but have a mutual friend who was skiing with him on the day. There were three of them skiing. The other two got to the bottom before him. They waited several minutes, couldn't see him and were immediately concerned. One stayed at the bottom, they called patrol and the other went up to go over the same run to check. Patrol ended up finding him. It was about 30 minutes from the time they think he fell in until the time he was retrieved. Correct he was unable to assist with rescue as he was unconscious. I don't know exactly how they removed him but could find out.

 

Keep in mind these are very rare incidents particularly if you look at incidents as a ratio of total participants; but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do whatever you can to minimise risk - people die in cracks and avis every year in Japan (and elsewhere of course). Hope this helps.

[Two fatalities in Niseko (late January 2013)]

Over the last 20 years or so I have been increasingly concerned by the numbers of people who buy a shovel, piep and probe and think they have BC/avi skills. So I am relieved to see some discussion about BC safety and awareness. The day you stop asking questions is the day you get into strife.

 

Glide cracks and holes are part of the Japanese snowpack and can really form any time depending on the winter. That said you would be unlucky or doing something stupid to end up in one. Don't let it stop you pushing your limits and exploring; just educate yourself. Dont be afraid to talk to locals and ask patrol. Vegetation, terrain and prevailing weather means they frequently form in the same places every year.

[Two fatalities in Niseko (late January 2013)]

please don't underestimate how difficult (read almost impossible) self rescue from a glide crack is. it is likely that you will have fallen head first with a lot of loose snow underneath you and above you. if your skis have released, you may be able to wriggle around but if they have not, you will very likely be stuck until you are rescued. asphyxiation is a common cause of death in these circumstances.

 

early this season in niseko a very experienced local skier fell into a crack in bounds and was rescued unconscious; it is thought he survived longer than most because he was wearing a full face helmet with a little extra breathing space which stopped him aspirating snow.

 

carrying a short rope is a very good idea on all BC adventures. 10m of 8-10mm rope is fine. a couple of biners too. a few metres of climbing tape good too.