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damian

What if Iraq fought back??

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ok, here's my swing.

 

i dont think preventing terrorism is a good excuse for a war.

9/11 was a sad event, but so are starving people, AIDS in africa, blah, blah, blah. sadness aplenty is to be found in our world, and the fact that so little of it is spread amongst americans, poms or australians leads the leaders of these countries to over react to a little global sadness redistribution. a more correct response would be to double and triple efforts at bettering the world as a whole. the earth summit in rio (in agenda 21) asked developed countries to donate .7% of their GDP to aid, and aside from the ever leading scandanavians, few countries have managed to achieve this. most are not even close to achieving it. the unfpa asked for $17b a year to help stem population growth and assist development in struggling countries, but funding persistantly falls short (less than half) due to a lack of commitment from developed countries. addressing these issues should become everyones concern. and this will happen once we pull our heads out of our arses and accept that we in the west already have more than enough. that 3 tellies is not what is needed to stay above the poverty line. and salaries of CEOs should not be calculated based on salaries of other CEOs.

 

if the world needs rid of vile dictators, then the world should get together and form a world police force with such a role. if agreement cant be reached on this (read iraq) then maybe we r not ready to enforce such moral policies. it is not for a few countries to take this role upon themselves.

 

it is an unfortunate fact that most individual and governmental decisions are taken with self interest as a dominant concern. quite natural i guess, but if we can take a look outside for just a moment we will see all is not quite as nature might have planned. im not asserting everyone must convert immediately to unrestarined altruism, just that there be a general acceptance of the current state of affairs (we have lots others less than lots), and a reconsideration of what represents a just decision. the invasion of iraq is selfish not just.

 

for this war the end - protection of the west from potential terrorism with possible WMD - does not justify the means. the moral standpoint is weak in that it ignores the plight of other oppressed and underpriveliged peoples.

 

i say step one to avoid terrorism, piss the world off less with unthinking foreign policy, and make an attempt to be selflessly virtuous rather than selfishly virtuous.

 

be nice

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I think I agree with that. Well said.

 

I'm afraid that supporting the boys automatically once they've been sent in will be accepted by the current type of leader as full support, and will make mikazooki's vision impossible to achieve.

 

We must change these habits of being dragged in if we are to be nice.

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Very well said mikazooki - I agree with you exactly.

 

What do you think of that db? I mean, it is easy to say it sounds unrealistic...but I think unless we can have a somewhat clear vision in our heads of what a better world would look like, we won't have anything that we can work towards. Taking steps towards that, however small, should bring us there eventually.

 

You are right on when you mention the Scandanavians are leading the way towards that. Have you seen where those countries rank in the "standard of living" index?

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> it is easy to say it sounds unrealistic...

 

I think a lot of people, especially media pundits and politicians, wouldn't dare to say anything of the sort. Although I think many 'normal' people are quite willing to believe in the possibility of a world regulated by a set of agreed standards.

 

Personally I think it would have been better in the case of Iraq (and NK and anywhere else) to offer the dictators safe haven and a decent living if they step down. That may not seem like justice to some, but it's far more just than killing even one complete innocent in order to get to Saddam (or Kim, or Fidel). A phased withdrawal of the dictators and a regulated transition to something else (ie a blueprint) would be better all round. Trying something like that (and it has never been tried) is more likely to succeed than endless wars.

 

It makes me laugh when anybody tries to paint Blair as an 'idealist'. He has a very long way to go.

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