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Good on Bloomberg, the Mayor of New York for banning smoking in Bars. Outstanding! Smoking is an evil protected bastion of society which frankly has run its course far too long. The day smoking is banished forever will be a day of joy for the world...

Do you support NY and California in the no smoking policies

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Banning smoking in bars is a ridiculous thing to do at the beginning of the 21st century. What, we can't devise ventilation systems and air curtains that can deal with a bit of fag or cigar smoke?!

 

Now if they had a law for ventilation standards to deal with the problem I'd agree totally, but an outright ban is a shameful limitation on the freedom of choice of patrons, owners, and employees.

 

Fascists and Puritans - exterminate them.

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you need some more categories for the voting. i agree it's gross for people to smoke when you are eating, but a bar is different. i don't smoke anymore, but when i did it, was mostly when i was drinking. drinking totally brings out the urge to smoke and in the states, you cant just take your drink outside while you puff. but on the otherhand the laws will definitely discourage the only-when-drunk smokers...

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Smoking is a totally unnatural thing to do and it should be banned everywhere. You are paying lots of money to breath smoke that is bad for you.

 

Further, its stinks and is really horrible to be around for non-smokers. I actually leave bars/restaurants early if I end up next to people who are smoking. Then I have to go home and wash my clothes cos they reek. I deliberatly do not invite friends out who I know are gonna just puff away while sitting near to me.

 

As you may be able to tell, it really bugs me.

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I hate many of the habits of smokers. There's nothing worse than trying to enjoy food or drink with somebody smoking near you. Trying to work in a smoky environment is also terrible and nobody should have to do it that doesn't want to.

 

However, some people, myself included on occasions, enjoy tobacco. We should be free to enjoy it, in so far as we don't inconvenience others or make them ill.

 

But there are solutions to the problems of smoking. If you smug, repressive non-smokers want to ban smoking, perhaps you should ban cars too. Or marujiana (oh, hang on, you already have).

 

So, tobacco banners, why not call for stricter laws on ventilation in places that allow smoking? Or are you content just to be fascist?

 

Of course many restaurants don't give nearly enough thought to this matter. Bamiyan restaurant where we often go always has people waiting for the 1/3 of the restaurant given over to non-smokers, while there are always empty spaces in the 2/3 of smoking section (where most people aren't actually smoking). Now we no longer bother waiting there. The staff of the place must have rocks in their heads because the problem and the solution are so bloody obvious.

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Yeah agreed. I dont know what it is but since coming to Japan it has really started to bother me. I think that perhaps people back home are a bit more thoughtful about the people around them and go outside or sit away from the table at the resturant or open the window whereas in Japan they seem to sit there blowing smoke in your face.

 

(not to single anyone out) but the people from the UK that I know here seem to be pretty bad too, they dont seem to think that non-smokers might not like it.

 

As for smoking in bars I dont like it but most places back home seemed to have decent ventilation and a place in hawaii even had an extractor that ran along the bottom of the bar counter. Niiice.

 

I hate smoking but there are ways to go about it that dont bother me. As for working in a bar where there is smoke. If you dont like it work in a non-smoking cafe. Id rather club with my smoker mates than have them go outside all the time. And if the balcony was infested with smokers then there goes one of the best spots in the place. sob sob.

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there's a killer pizza joint in queenstown with an opeing roof! its wickid, and they will open it for a bit when its snowing. snow on pizza \:\) and the perfect ventilation solution.

i think cost might be of some concern, but its a good idea. same goes with air curtains and ex tractor fan ventilation.

 

i find smoking in buildings offensive, out the front of elevators, in restaurants,[and i note all the taxis ive used in japan stink of smoke - not pleasant] but bars..well i foresee problems in banning it there.

 

smoking is a personal behaviour that affects other people's environment. this is not a right. [neither is it a right for us to chop down forests and pollute the air and water of the planet we share]

 

we have plenty of public health laws designed to protect the public. any one wear a seat belt? wasnt always the way. many people resist this infringement on their freedom, but 20 years down the track, it will be seen as common sense. the ongoing freedom to smoke goes against other health imposed restrictions. the high taxes on smking still dont cover the high medical costs smoking causes. an out right ban is unfeasible presently, but phasing things in this direction is desirable path.

 

imperfect world.

 

reasons to push forward with change.

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>>smoking is a personal behaviour that affects other people's environment. this is not a right.

 

Wrong. I DO have the right to indulge in a personal behaviour that affects other peoples environment. I may not feel happy doing so, it may not make the other person happy, but I have the right to do it if I want to or if it is necessary.

 

I have the right to do anything I want within the law. If I break the law, I get punished. To some degree it can also be argued that I have the right to break the law.

 

Along with anti-smoking advocates, I am also sick and tired of being told:

 

- how much money is a fair income,

- what I should not eat,

- how I should spend my money,

- what clothes I should wear and what they should be made from,

- how often I should drive and how many people should be in my car,

etc etc etc.

 

She is a bit of a wacko and is often painful to read, but please do yourselves a favour and read Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.

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Farting is also a personal behaviour that affects other people's environment, as is singing, or driving a car. And yet we find ways of tolerating these things without banning them.

 

I really think a lot of people are too quick to say 'ban this, ban that', without considering the implications.

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and what, pray tell, are the implications of banning smoking??

 

less money for JT or philip morris?

 

grumpy smokers while they withdraw or a dangerous blackmarket tobacco industry?

 

less cigarette butts on the street?

 

our lives are guided by numerous health and safety standards designed to protect us, and generally people who have seen the success of such guidelines stand by them as fruitful advances.

 

those who have something to lose will always be vocal and stand up for their "rights" just like the NRA.

 

i believe in a slow transitions so i am not aiming to take the burning cigarette from your lips and ban the behaviour outright. but it should be understood that this is a behaviour which runs contradictory to many other aspects of so called 'civilised society'.

 

 

while it is not possible for me to change everyones moral values, i can express a desire what might be considered responsible living, compatible with a sustainable earth. and for me this means high regard for public health, and moderation of excessive consumerism. i want to believe in an optimistic future for the planet, and that will only happen if things change gor the better.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by mikazooki:
there's a killer pizza joint in queenstown with an opeing roof! its wickid, and they will open it for a bit when its snowing. snow on pizza \:\) and the perfect ventilation solution.
i think cost might be of some concern, but its a good idea. same goes with air curtains and ex tractor fan ventilation.
That would be Winnebagoes Pizza place in the town centre there! Great place and really goes off on the weekend. Got one in CHCH too.

Just a question to all you non-smokers whom complain of smokers.

None of you are the type who will happily puff away on a joint every now and then are you? Never right? Bad and smelly and inconsiderate right?
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>> those who have something to lose will always be vocal and stand up for their "rights" just like the NRA.

 

Do you have rights (or "rights" as you put it)?

If you do, why do you classify them as rights?

Do you have something to lose?

 

Answer these questions then try to repeat the above statement....and mean it.

 

It is irrational not to defend yourself from loss.

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u r clever to see the deeper meaning.

 

no i do not believe in rights.

 

society constructs such a concept as a dynamic representation of its current status.

 

so what one person will feel is a right, others will disagree, and as the numbers change this is how the system changes.

 

dont get me wrong. i am not an extremist. i am a moderate with extremist views.

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> and what, pray tell, are the implications of banning smoking??

 

It's not so much the immediate implications as the wider implications. Why shouldn't I enjoy a nice harmful cigar out on my back porch? (or indeed a spliff - nice point mogski, they are hypocrites, aren't they) There are plenty of harmful things that we consume - the costs of abuse of alcohol are very high too. It makes you fat and a potential danger to others, including your own children. Why not ban that?

 

Smoking does pose problems, but they can be solved by a) acceptance of the risk and B) good manners, enforced if necessary.

 

I don't want to encourage the hypocritical nannies in society who are trying to whittle down the list of 'rights' to include only the ones they approve of.

 

 

> our lives are guided by numerous health and safety standards designed to protect us

 

Yes but you'll find there's usually some sort of balance between pleasure and restraint involved. That's why cars have both accelerator and brakes, fizzy drink (beer) holder and seat belts.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by mogski:
None of you are the type who will happily puff away on a joint every now and then are you? Never right? Bad and smelly and inconsiderate right?
I am not a fan of tabacco at all, i used to smoke socially but don't anymore. I do smoke some other stuff now and again, even then it is never with tabacco. When i do it it is in the comfort of my own home or a mates place where we are having a gathering of sorts. Most (but not all i must admit) of the time i will go outside to smoke if im at someone elses place.

I never smoke in public for obvious reasons and so it is not affecting other people's environments who are also out in public.

After reading this thread and my original post i think i may have been a bit quick with my response and didn't really think about the topic as much as i should've. I still think that it is good that smoking is banned in restuarants over here. The non-smoking areas aren't effective anyway. But now i'm thinking that banning it in bars might be a little harsh.

Cheers.
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