Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 121
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Those mass graves are there in part because Saddam was allowed to kill all those people by the heroic coaltion the first time round. And nobody actually knows how many people are in them so it's pointless to speculate (and nothing is being done to ensure that any count will be accurate). I wonder how many mass graves there would be on UK soil if another country attacked the UK for invading a third country and encouraged part of the UK population to revolt against the government. Or the US.

 

Are the mass graves the justification for the war, rather than those hard-to-find WMD? And where is Saddam too?

 

As for the Lynch story, here\'s the BBC asking Deputy Assistant Secretary Whitman about it, and here's his very frank, very not evasive at all replies;

 

--------------------

 

Q: How important was the Jessica Lynch story to the coverage and to the national mood?

 

Whitman: Well I think that anytime that you have a successful POW snatch, return of a POW that's been held in enemy hands, that there is certainly much to be happy about, to be excited about and I think you saw that kind of elation. The United States military just like the British, it's part of the warrior ethic not to leave your comrades behind so these are big events when they occur so I think that the coverage that was given to it, while it was extensive, was because it is so important to the American people and to the American military when you have those individuals that are taken captive, in particularly, when you are up against an adversary that has demonstrated complete disregard for the Geneva Conventions and so there's very much a reason to be concerned about those people that are held in captive.

 

Q: But how important was it to have pictures? To have that Army cameraman going in with the forces, freeing her?

 

Whitman: Well I think pictures do a lot to help tell the story and we embedded some 100 cameras, if you take a look at it, nearly 100 camera across the battlefield and because I think images are important, I think they're even more important in certain parts of the world where language can be a barrier, I think that images and photographs and video help tell a story, that you can't tell in words or they get lost in translation so, I think that the images were important.

 

Q: Were you here watching the feed of that coming in live and as it was happening or did you make a video tape of it?

 

Whitman: No, that operation was not live. Those who, our own cameramen, combat camera...

 

Q: No, that wasn't live on television. I'm saying it was live coming into you and the press?

 

Whitman: No, that's what I'm saying. Those images were taken by our combat camera photographers in the field, it was not transmitted in real time. Once the raid was over with, those pictures were then transmitted back to us.

 

Q: And of that, you watched those pictures, you watched the pure feed correct, coming in and you made the video?

 

Whitman: Yes, and Central Command I think was the first to show those images at one of their daily briefings in Qatar.

 

Q: Jessica Lynch herself, what injuries did she sustain?

 

Whitman: Well, I'm not going to get into the specific injuries that she received. That is up to her and her doctors to discuss at the appropriate time. Needless to say, she is still under medical care and that she is receiving some of the finest care that you can get in the world, in the military medical system and I'm sure it won't be long before she will be out and she'll talk about those herself.

 

Q: Was there any resistance as the forces were going in?

 

Whitman: I think that I will leave that story to be told in great detail when the time is right. We are still engaged in combat operations, we still have two soldiers who are missing and we may be using some of the same tactics, techniques and procedures for future operations. We are still engaged in conflict in Iraq and I don't think at this point and time, when the true story comes out, it will be fascinating. It is premature right now.

 

Q: Because you know that the Washington Post is reporting that the actual events did not necessarily correspond to the events as filmed.

 

Whitman: I understand that there is some conflicting information out there and in due time the full story will be told, I'm sure.

 

Q: Are you confident that the full story is the full story as shown in the video?

 

Whitman: Oh I think that this was a large operation. It used a number of forces, it was a very joint operation, it was well planned and well executed with many moving parts and that the complete story will still come out in days to come.

 

Q: But the complete story seemed to show a heavy level of resistance and great acts of heroism by the specials that were going in and according to the Washington Post, that wasn't the case.

 

Whitman: Well, time will tell.

 

--------------------

 

"many moving parts" -- I like that bit. The poor man is just a bit too honest to lie convincingly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kintaro - no worry brah - its cool. I might be down in Sendai next weekend for a jet ski race - I can't race yet, but we might go to support our team. Maybe we can hook up...

 

OC - That conversation doesn't mean squat to me. The voice of the reporter that was there and talked to the lawyer means a lot more.

 

You see, it doesn't matter to me that we "rescued" her by shooting our way in or not - what matters to me, is that we were able to go in and get her. I really don't give a rats ass if someone fabb'd up a story or not, what is important is she came home. I suppose its hard for some to understand my feelings. I'm ok with that - I sure as hell don't understand some of the opinions I read on here.

 

With that said - its time to find another side of beef to poke a fork in, cause this one is done.

 

p.s.

For those who are interested, post surgery recovery sucks for a non couch potato whose had an anterior cervical disc fusion (fancy term for what I had). I hate the fact my only allowable "exercise" is the fricken remote for the TV. I should be out jet skiing my ass off right now. But hey, for what its worth, I'm hanging in there.

 

Take Care

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ray, that'd be cool...but I work every single weekend of the year! My wd's are off \:\) BTW, where in Sendai? Do you know the name of the place? If you do come this way fire me off a private if you need a place to crash.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plucky logging in. Medical shit kept me out. Ray - advise - is this place American friendly yet or is anything you say refuted? Do these 'open minds' realize what an open mind is? Is ANYTHING written by a US citizen still ridiculed even if you agree with them?

 

 

Just wondering

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plucky, welcome back. What kind of "medical shit" were you dealing with? I'm going to work tomorrow for the first time in 2.5 months. BTW, remember 2.5 months ago "Big Kahuna" called you and we almost met up at Appi? Well, broke my leg and had to head back to Sendai. No Hachimantia this year. Did you guys go?

Link to post
Share on other sites

> Is ANYTHING written by a US citizen still ridiculed even if you agree with them?

 

That's just another version of the anti-American thing ain't it Plucky? There are plenty of Americans on here who don't seem to need a diet of lies to make them feel good. I don't hear them complaining.

 

Why don't you try to join in the discussion instead of wringing your hands about the unfairness of it all?

Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
Originally posted by Kintaro:
Plucky, welcome back. What kind of "medical shit" were you dealing with? I'm going to work tomorrow for the first time in 2.5 months. BTW, remember 2.5 months ago "Big Kahuna" called you and we almost met up at Appi? Well, broke my leg and had to head back to Sendai. No Hachimantia this year. Did you guys go?
Yes! I was looking very forwared to hooking up with you guys. How is Jibaro? Sorry to hear about the leg. Damn, that sucks. Anytime, and I mean ANYTIME you guys are up in this part of the country please call. Jibaro mentioned something about surf and I'd love to have you. I'm moving to a beach house this month.

My leg problems stem from a torn meniscus in my knee and another problem that I'd rather not discuss here. Too much resemblence with facist British Rule. \:\)
Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ocean11:
> Is ANYTHING written by a US citizen still ridiculed even if you agree with them?

That's just another version of the anti-American thing ain't it Plucky? There are plenty of Americans on here who don't seem to need a diet of lies to make them feel good. I don't hear them complaining.

Why don't you try to join in the discussion instead of wringing your hands about the unfairness of it all?
Caught me on a bad day. Never had one? I've stated before my objection about the US Gov but it didn't even make a dent in to your blind sided ideals. What do I care? Nothing. Keep spouting against fact and fiction. You do a good job of it.

My dog just pushed my guitar over....karma?
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Plucky, We're 3 stars..... go figure! I may be heading up your way this summer. If so, I'll give you a call. BTW, it's "Jorma." You and I didn't talk but I listened in to you and Jorma. Did your friends have a good time in Japan? I might take you up on borrowing a wet suit....I've never surfed with one but if neccesary would try. Neccessary?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will agree that this heros thread was dead and gone long ago. but

 

Ray The story does matter. Im glad that a person didnt die but the truth matters. It matters as much as everything else. If we dont hold ourselves to the truth then why did we fight this war. If there are no WMDS worth finding and the Government lied or made a huge mistake shouldnt they be held accountable.

 

Saddam was a sh tt but this war was not about him or wasnt supposed to by about him.

 

All post Ops welcome back and a speedy recovery.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
Originally posted by Kintaro:
Hey Plucky, We're 3 stars..... go figure! I may be heading up your way this summer. If so, I'll give you a call. BTW, it's "Jorma." You and I didn't talk but I listened in to you and Jorma. Did your friends have a good time in Japan? I might take you up on borrowing a wet suit....I've never surfed with one but if neccesary would try. Neccessary?
Jorma - I completely remember but had the name mixed up with another surfer buddy I have. Sorry about that \:\) My friends had a blast here. They were here for the big blizzard of '03 which socked us in for 3 days but we made the best of it and had a blast.

Hey, if you come up this summer, you may not need a wetsuit! Water is still cold right now but is warming up quickly. I'm moving to the beach in a month and will have the perfect pad to host anyone who wants to visit. When are you maybe thinking of coming up? A surf club just started up here and we're going to have a couple contests this summer with some boys from SoCal and Hawaii. Should be a great time! It also coincides with the local Nebuta festival.

Keep in touch and PM or email me if you can. I won't be posting on here that much. The open minds on here don't like to hear the other side of the story from an actual American that they bitch so much about (see how Ray is torn apart even though his posts are gentile). It's like people on here know more about our country than we do. I find it quite funny. Let the snow Japan clique live on and the Ocean ass kissing commence! Bitter British guys crack me up.

Aloha
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yo plucky - how ya been man?

 

I just gotta say as an open minded American I think you might be making it out to be a little worse than it really is on this forum. At times political discussions get a little heated...and whatever you do don't dis the board itself...but basically it's a pretty easy going place to hang out if you are just chill and keep cool.

 

Anyway man - I enjoy your posts. Look forward to seein you more.

 

PEACE

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ray i read yours now you read mine. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101030519-450997,00.html

 

This in time magazine. Think about this a little. when it came time to the looting what did the US army protect the oil or the people?

 

If WMDs are not found then what? Will the American public stand up and say something. Right now its taboo to speak out against anything. In a way isnt this exactly what the terrorist want.

 

Does America really need more nukes of the smaller variety? This only adds to the pile of of large nukes, chermical, biological and Moabs doesnt it.

 

America is the worlds largest arms exporter isnt it?

 

I think these are good hard questions people from the US should consider.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plucky, we're all too familiar with your lamentable tendency to crack up, you don't need to keep telling us about it.

 

I don't enjoy your posts -- you can only stay sane for about two before you flip. As for bitterness, you have enough sour grapes on your side of the fence to start a whinery. It seems you only post on your bad days.

 

Ray, I know you're glad that Saddam is gone, and you think it was worth it - fair enough. But don't you find the slippery reasons given for it, and the heavy 'scene setting' engineered for the war alarming? Do you actually think lies have been told about the real motives, and how it was actually fought?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dang it, I thought I was done with this, but my name keeps popping up. Fair enough.

 

First off - no one said this directly or indirectly for that matter but for the record, even though I'm hard core military, I do have some conscience along with the ability to determine true right from wrong.

 

Now FT - I read the article but just because its in Time Magazine doesn't mean its pure fact. I'm not saying its BS either, just not putting a whole lot of weight behind it cause I don't have all the facts.

 

I am skeptical about the claim of Russia oil producing capability. If oil if everything people claim, and having oil = power, hence some folks claim that the US wants the Iraqi oil fields, then how come the USSR folded, and has since become a 3rd world region instead of an economic super power like Japan, the US, and other strong 1st world countries?

 

Yes the Americans protected the Iraqi oil fields. We had a hell of a time putting out the Kuwaiti oil field fires and protecting the Iraqi fields during the war was both tactical (no flying through smoke) and practical (no spending millions to rebuild them afterwards, and quicker way to help their economy recover if the fields are working). The looters were hurting the Iraqis, not the US and although it wasn't pleasant, don't blame the US because criminals took advantage of the situation. Blame the criminals who looted the same as if they looted your home while you were at work.

 

OC - You know I have to find justificaton for doing what we do. If there isn't any justification, then that means I'm part of an organization of killer thugs too, and that wouldn't sit well with me.

 

If in fact WMD are not found, I think GW will not make it to a second term. Even if stuff is planted, the truth will come out (the democrats will find a way) and those who perpretrated the wrong doing will be punished. The premise for the war was WMD that could be used against the US. But trust me on this - we in the military are not all robots. If our boss lies to us, we do have the option of voting in a new boss. Most Americans are not robots either. I predict very quickly that the headlines will focus on the US economy. No WMD, and a bad economy = no re-election.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ray I have no lasting arguements on this topic. If lies werre told I hope that the American people can see through this troubling time. The government and the media have been able too cloud over everything. This will be my last post on this topic. Thanks for the debate.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I have just been listening to some tripe on Fox News (Again. I don't know why I watch it, it is compelling in a very strange way).

 

Their use of this hero term really is getting extremely annoying.

 

Fireman - heroes, military types - heroes, blah blah blah.....

 

With respect to those people doing those jobs, I just do not get it. Er, yeah, they're putting themselves at risk in their job etc - but THAT'S THE JOB THEY CHOSE. THEY ARE GETTING PAID FOR IT.

 

Am I missing something or what?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...