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being called a tight-arse and cheap skate really doesn't help the cause of those that stand for the concept of tipping. It is my money, I will do what I want with it. Being called a cheap skate just reflects on the "have and have not, the world owes me a living, you have more than me so give me some of yours or I will take it by force or spit on your pizza" pathetic attitude.

 

Quite seriously, IT IS NOT A TIP it is a TAX. Please stop kidding yourselves into thinking that it has been deserved. And tipping just because it is polite?? No one tips me to extend a polite gesture. Just bvecause you are a waiter does not mean that the world owes you an extra serving of polite treatment.

 

If America is flea-ridden with the tipping 'culture' then obviously you go along with it "when in Rome". After all, it is a national TAX. Against my will I have paid it in the past.

 

In the meantime, to every other bar staffer and waiter from what ever else country that seems to think that they deserve a tip: I can but only feel sorry for you. After all, you are poorly paid slaves to other peoples fun. I suppose a couple of bucks extra is needed to sooth the angst, and you should get it, IF YOU DESERVE IT.

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Tipping is like pimping.

 

You pay the establishment for the use of their premises and their staff and then you pay the staff for their services!

 

Therefore all you have eaten in the US should be arrested because prostituion is illegal!

 

YES! This is going to be my next tight arse way of getting out of tipping!!! \:D

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Chauncey, you've missed the point, and I'd have to say your attitude muddies the water.

 

Waiters who enjoy their job and get on with people (i.e have a certain charismatic value) and thus get tipped accordingly, have their reputation spoiled by people like you!

 

db I reckon I could've got you to dip into those vast 'pension' savings! ;\) Though your attitude to those who seemingly have had lesser opportunities (on account of their job) ain't great!

 

My waiting experience was a means to an end, but I do feel sorry for those out there who have little or no alternative. 

 

Besides, I used to enjoy a few drinks in the bar after work with the customers, and after a few bottles of wine and good service, the tongue isn't the only thing to loosen.....

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Come on you guys - you know the answer to your own questions.

 

Why don`t the bars, restaurants, hotels in tipping countries just raise their prices and pay the staff properly ?

 

Because competitive pricing is the way such businesses attract customers. And I`m sure that in America, such a practice would be seen as communist. Your not a . . .

xyxnervous.gif

communist xyxnervous.gif

are you db, kamo ??

 

Advertising competitive prices and screwing their employees is the way that these businesses run. Other kinds of business scrape their customers - not aimed at you db, but from a customer`s perspective, banks are the classic example of a business that rapes it`s customers with service charges - these banks can advertise their great rates, but it`s ATM fee here, checking fee there, and if you make a mistake - hold on while the bounced check or canceled check fees clean out your wallet. I don`t consider any of these services worthy of reward, yet I have to pay them all the time. Can someone explain to me why a bank deserves a service fee at every turn, while a waiter or waitress doesn`t ?

 

And for all of you who tip only when it is deserved, or as a reward for only the best service, do you tip here in Japan, where the service is often excellent - head massage included with your haircut, for example.

 

Such a service is probably above and beyond what you would receive in your country of origin. And before you go ahead and say it is standard - included in the high price. There are times I have received such a service at the 1500 Yen Shops, and times I haven`t received this service at the 3500 Yen shops. Also vice versa. There are times when I receive the service one month, only to not receive it the next.

 

My philosophy for tipping - do as the Romans do, and when in a restaurant in a tipping country, good service 15%, excellent service - a couple bucks on top of that 15%, lousy service - screw `em.

 

Bartenders - I used to be one, so I tip `em if I want their attention, or if they are making me something that I can`t make myself, and it`s good.

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When in the history of the countries where tipping is "part of the culture of service" become such?

 

What ever happened to good honest service cause you want to?

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Matthews:

db I reckon I could've got you to dip into those vast 'pension' savings! ;\) Though your attitude to those who seemingly have had lesser opportunities (on account of their job) ain't great!

And happily I would have dipped into these funds. I actually relish the opportunity to make a point of giving a deserved tip. As for my attitude to those with lesser opportunities... some of what I said was intened as a poke in the ribs with a stick, partricularly the last para in my previous post.
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I sometimes give a small tip if I feel I have been given really good service and sometimes also it rounds up a bill, but if there is nothing special with the service then they can dream on.

 

It must be very confusing for people coming from overseas and not used to it. I am sure lots of them probably hand out far too much money than they should/need out of not wanting to offend etc.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by barok:
Can someone explain to me why a bank deserves a service fee at every turn, while a waiter or waitress doesn`t ?
Because a bank is charged with the responsibility of providing a secure environment for our money whilst still making it available at call from no end of outlets via a not so simple international banking settlement system that links many national systems (Fed Wire, Swift etc). On the other hand, a waitress says "what will it be? Do you want tomato sauee or BBQ sauce?". Then comes back in 10 minutes and plonks it in front of me with the expectation of getting me to pay at least 15% over and above the list price. I would rather pay a bank $1 to have an operating ATM on the nearest corner to me at 3am in the morning.

I do agree that in many cases, bank fees are a touch to high. However, I am happy to pay an ATM fee if it means I can use my cash card to get money at any ATM on any corner or bottle shop or petrol station or corner store. Besides, why shouldn't a bank charge fees? Outside of fees, they do not get paid to provide the services that they do. In fact, they pay us interest.

A typical bank:

1. pays customers interest on deposits
2. uses these funds to lend to other customers for longer terms and higher rates than are paid in 1.
3. provide other banking services that should be paid for by those that use them, eg, ATMS.

1 & 2 represent typical age old banking business structure.

If anything, I would protest about the very low interest rate that you are paid, not the fees. But then, why should a bank pay decent interest rates on an account with a very small and unstable balance that can be drawn on 24 hours a day with zero notice. Like most entities, banks pay for certainty.
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 Quote:
Originally posted by barok:

Because competitive pricing is the way such businesses attract customers. And I`m sure that in America, such a practice would be seen as communist. Your not a . . .
communist are you db, kamo ??
Advertising competitive prices and screwing their employees is the way that these businesses run.
It shouldnt make a difference if there is a respectable minimum wage then every establishment would have to raise their prices accordingly.
4,5,6 would become 7,8,9. Where 4 was the cheapest, now 7 is the cheapest.
customers would likely pay the same final cost with all factors totalled up. They way it works in many other countries as we type.
It is really nice to see the price outside the establishment and know that is likely final cost, you dont have to calc tips and tax on the advertised price.

And as for advertising cheap prices and screwing the employees, thats what is the worst part, it forces them to grovel and be sycophantic and propogates the whole unpleasantness of obligation tipping. As I said I have been on this tipping roundabout argument a million times and it is never going anywhere.

Actually lets here from someone from a tipping culture who much prefers the non tipping culture
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"Tipping is not a city in China!"-I'm sure some of you have seen this amusing little snippet on a tip jar somewhere. It represents one end of the argument and is a valid point-tipping for good service feels good. Having been on both the receiving and giving end in traditionally non-tipping countries I feel that it's a nice gesture that elevates both parties. In a tipping culture it tends to be what it is-an obligation or form of subsidy for lower prices.

So tip where tipping is appropriate-it makes me feel far more sophisticated and wealthy than I actually am. When I tippped in America I didn't get this magical little feeling-I was just doing as in Rome and appreciated the reality that I was just paying for reasonable prices indirectly-well most of the time anyway. But where is the honor-which to me is what it's all about? It isn't with the pullthrough bartender who can't bring himself to mumble a thanks after getting a buck gratuity for opening a beer-nor is it with the table of 15 who've had shit hot service, food, and drinks all night-then proceed to pay their bill thanking you profusely without leaving one cent as a token of their appreciation.

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I have never worked in a job where I depended on tips (although I know many that do) but for some reason this cavalier attitude (db's) of not wanting to tip because I shouldn't have to really gets me hot under around the collar. Fine, think of it as a tax, whatever, I don't care. It is a tax, and in America it is required for decent service. Unless someone is rude to you, you must tip them. The attitude of tipping really well and "making it known" when the service is really good (or maybe you mean, when you feel like it) is totally wrong. Tipping is not a show. You shouldn't try to get a reaction out of people (oooh, he is a big tipper). Just be cool, leave the cash, and be out. It is so easy to say, "why don't they just pay them more?" but that just isn't the way it is. If I could snap my fingers and change ways of doing things around the world I am sure I could come up with some pretty worthwhile changes...but come one, be realistic.

 

Akibun - to get back to your trip. Here is what I, personally, tip.

 

Restaurants: 20% of the bill. If the service is not too good I will leave between 10-15%, but it has to be pretty bad for that. If the waiter is blatantly rude to me then I might make a statement with a very low to nothing tip. If I know someone at the restaurant I will leave up to a 40% tip, especially if I am getting discounted or free food/drinks.

 

Only tip if you sit down and order. Do not tip at fast food or take out places. If they have a tip jar you may want to leave a dollar or some change.

 

Bars: I will usually tip a dollar or so for my first drink. I don't necessarily tip for every drink. Maybe $1 or so every 2nd or 3rd drink. It depends on the service and the place. If the bartender (or cocktail waitress) is bringing the drinks to you then you deifnitely need to tip at least $1 when she brings them.

 

Coffee Shops (Starbucks type places): I try to tip at least a buck. I know many baristas and they really depend on tips.

 

Taxis: $1 I guess.

 

Hotels: A couple dollars to the bell boy for bringin up your bags (or roomservice or anything like that). I have never left a tip for the maids.

 

Where else in the world is tipping a big part of the culture? America, Canada, Holland I think...

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 Quote:
Originally posted by enderzero:
. Fine, think of it as a tax, whatever, I don't care. It is a tax, and in America it is required for decent service. Unless someone is rude to you, you must tip them

Yes very true, it is a tax ender and when I lived in America I did tip accordingly, but as a someone who didn't grow up with tipping I was thoroughly confused for a long time and even found it stressful at times, especially the episode with the sloppy sloth waiter I mentioned earlier. Stressed because it ruined what bad previousy been a enjoyable evening.
Them are the breaks I am sure the longer you live with it the more natural it becomes.
Changing while possible is agreed highly improbable for the same reason of metric/Imperial.

 Quote:
Taxis: $1 I guess
Actually Taxi drivers are the guys I tip the most (even in Japan). If a cabbie, speeds, takes great shortcuts, goes out of his way and is a talkative good bloke, then I will give him a decent tip.
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The idea of "making a point of it" when I tip is not for an ego boost (ie, showing that I am a big tipper, which I am not). It is to differentiate between behaving as society has attempted to conditioned me to behave, ie, irrationally, and giving gratitude when it has been deserved.

 

In Japan it appears that all people are indoctrinated to do certain things at certain times. Start and finish a phone conversation with 'sorry', never wear shoes inside etc. In America it appears that society has been indoctrinated to add 20% to a cafe bill. The way my mind works causes difficulty understanding mass indoctrination.

 

Besides, I say it again, it is not a tip, it is quite simply part of the price. A cafe advertised pizza at $10 on the card and then charges you $12 on the bill. It is expected to be paid and always is paid by dutiful "tippers'. It is not a tip.

 

Ender, I am Australian, we are not expected to tip in Australia. My attitude is not cavalier just because tipping is the norm in America. It is an American religion and not all people from other countries are faithful.

 

To be honest, the only reason tipping gets the attention it does by non-Americans is that it permeates so many American TV shows and movies.

 

By the way, carrying a bag to my hotel room does not deserve a tip. The guy is paid stand there and carry my bag (something that I am quite capable of doing myself, and usually do).

 

- Do you tip the teller at a bank?

- Do you tip the person who stacks the shelves at the supermarket?

- Do you tip the train driver?

- Do you tip an air hostess?

- Do you tip the lift operator at a ski resort?

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 Quote:
Originally posted by db:
- Do you tip the lift operator at a ski resort?
Funnily enough db when I worked as a lifty/Gondy operator in the States I got 2 tips. Both of $20!
Where I worked has two very expensive restaurants at the top of the hill, so non skiers ride the Gondola.
One woman left her handbag in the Gondola, I picked it out at the bottom, seconds before a group of shady fellas were about to hop in to the cabin. When she returned hysterically she hugged me and pulled a 20 out and was on her way.

The other time I was on my lonesome at night on the gondola that ran till midnight for the guests of the restaurants. Anyway when one of the cabins pulled in I got out of my little office and went out and said hello to the elderly couple. The man and I started having a yarn about my accent for starters and then golf (he was a member at Augusta) anyway before he was on his way he whipped outa billfold full of notes and pulled out a 20 and gave it to me. You could have knocked me over with a feather. $20 for getting of my chuff and havinga chat late at night in a cold gondola terminal. But he got me thinking, if this guy tipped me 20 how much did the waiters get?! I am sure this guy was loaded and very generous. I asked one of the waiters one night as a ballpark figure what do you guys get in tips, he said between you me and the gatepost, 100 was a bad night and I heard from another guy that the one waiter once pulled over 300 in one night....nice work if you can get it.
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Whats the difference between tipping and begging?

 

answer

Beggers are considered lazy for not working and beggers will not punish you for not giving them money.

 

What if for example a sanatation worker who was on the same low wage as bar staff hung around on the street outside your house from where he collects the garbage shaking a can with "Tipping is not a city in china" written on it expecting some money. Lets say he gets none and stops collecting your garbage or worse tips your garbage around your house. Why tip a barman for fetching you a beer but not the garbage man for collecting your garbage.

 

 

What started as a kind gesture has turned into a monster.

 

I realise some are getting a bit angry at those that dont understand tipping - this post prolly wont help - just remember, light hearted banter. \:\) Think of some crazy Japanese thing you dont understand but is quite normal here and you will know what we are thinking.

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Well, personally I don't agree with tipping... but don't get me wrong, I have done plenty of waitressing. Maybe it comes with living in a non-tipping country (NZ) but I got pretty crappy pay and when I did get tipped by foreign customers, I didn't get to keep it... but that's another story...

 

Anyway, I figure, I went into the job knowing how much I would get paid - and my job is to work hard and be nice to the customers. Being friendly to customers should be something you do anyway if you're a nice person... but if people choose to tip, it should be an act of appreciation, not something you do because it's expected or because the waiter will treat you like s**t if you don't.

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I think that a good call you made there jared, tipping has lost its meaning and the only ones who seem to supporting it here are people who have (or had) a vested interest maitaining a rather silly system.

 

Ender, what if you extended your "that how it is, can't change it" arguement to apartheid and black slavery. Streching it a bit I know, but I hope you see my point.

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Not to complicate matters, but we used to also "tip" our sanitation worker, postal carrier, and newspaper delivery boy, and the teachers of the children in my family every Christmas. This was not required, but we did it to show our appreciation for their faithful toil at low-wage jobs.

 

Note: the "tip" took many forms: cash, cookies, alcohol, etc.

 

I have been on the receiving end of tips in a variety of low-paying jobs such as: newspaper delivery boy, golf caddy, delivery man, bartender. I've also received "tips" of a kind in the form of an annual bonus. Having said that, I do not think tips should be given blindly, but I try to tip generously when the service has been particularly good. It's a personal decision, pure and simple.

 

(This topic, reminds me of the opening diner scene from Reservoir Dogs where Steve Buscemi's character refuses to tip; it seems that db is Mr. Pink :p )

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jared that sanitation worker example gave me a good chuckle lol.gif . Could be straight out of a Simpsons episode with Barney banging the trash can. Sure it's the culture in America-but I'm certainly more comfortable with the voluntary version of the game.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Goemon:
their faithful toil at low-wage jobs.
This is quite worthy of recognition. Over a long year people who put in hard effort for the betterment of us all and get little in return deserve some thanks. As mentioned, garbage collectors and teachers fit into this group. I have also been seen thanking the bus driver and taxi driver on NYE or xmas eve/day. These guys miss out on the fun for the benefit of others. Sure, they get paid extra, but money doesn't always replace time with the family etc during these special events.

It should be noted that I am usually shit faced drunk, early afternoon NYD after stumbling out of some seedy day club.

And yes, it appears that I am Mr Pinku. \:\)
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