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I don't know why I always come here to have a grumble. But here I go again.

 

I do not follow cinema or Hollywood at all, so apart from the reviews here I am not enlightened with the general opinion about this movie. Here is mine:

 

Appalling.

 

I am at risk of sounding like someone's father commenting on the decay of moral fiber in the community and pointing out how 'when I was young......blah blah.' I hope I don't sound like that. I sat through this movie and was really saddened. I thought "is this it?", November 2003 and this is what billion dollar Hollywood gives me. I was saddened by the fact that cinemas full of peoples all pay cash to give this type of material an entrance into their live's. Firstly, it was so obvious that QT was feeding his own ego. The whole movie appeared designed to generate yet again an "I am QT, I am cool" porno-violent glam canvass. Did he make this movie for no other reason that to employ his idea of cool camera angles, imagery and music? Get over yourself, QT, you come across like a try hard.

 

What about the content? This may seem a little over the top but half way through I remembered the quote on the cover of my favourite simple film:

 

"We are the measure of all things.

And the beauty of our creation, of our art

is proportional to the beauty of ourselves, of our souls"

- Jonas Mekas

 

Repeat that over and over in your head, think about what it is saying, then refer to Kill Bill and ask yourself: why did he bother making this film? Then ask yourself the harder question, why is this film popular with the paying public? Is its popularity proportional the the beauty of ourselves, of our souls? Sick if it is.

 

In making this movie, what did QT do for me, you, society? Nothing. What was his purpose? To entertain!!!? Perhaps I have changed so much that I am having trouble keeping up with the pace of my own change, but I shook my head so many times in this movie. I just didn't understand the 'why' part. I have lived a life that is so far from conservative that I am sometimes out of touch with 'social norms'. These days I look and appear conservative, but inside I still think the same. Why then my shock at this disgraceful movie? I was not raised on comic books, computer games and sugar chocolate frosted breakfast cereals washed down with Coca-Cola. Perhaps this is why I am left disappointed by these types of movies. I have been shocked before, and asked what is the purpose of this movie. If you want top be shocked, read the Marquis de Sade's "120 Days of Sodom", written in about 1780, and then go and see the adaptation to film called "Salo. 120 Days". I challenge you not to walk out of the cinema. In addition, but of a different category, there are 100's of junk violence movies on offer these days and there always have been. Why am I picking on this movie? Perhaps a human reaches a point where they say enough. What good came from this film? Mr QT, how did you improve the world? Of all the real life destruction and crap that we have to live with today, why did you think that I wanted or needed to see this crap mind of yours at work? As an artist, QT could have done so much. Instead he has done nothing. The world would be better without him and movies like Kill Bill. Perhaps a few years ago I would have thought nothing of it. I mean, the violence is so out of control that it is beyond fantasy. So much so that it loses its impact. On the flip side I kind of feel better about myself in that these days when I see a movie like that I now think "no, I don't need or want this, there is nothing good here".

 

I do not suggest that the censors should ban it. I would like to see something better. I would really like to see this society turn around and tell QT to take his movie and leave us alone to be happy.

 

I am told that this movie was a tribute to some dead guy. Great. It seemed more like a tribute to QT's own ego and desire to generate an "I am cooler than **** and so is death and violent sex" image.

 

I am told that he loves manga and anime. Cartoons and comics? Grow up little boy and stop with the very tired obsession with Japan that so many pimply little western dorks seem to have grown up with. To these types, I suggest they get their hands out of their pants and live the real world.

 

This is not a go at you Badmigs, but seriously, of all the things that had the guts ripped out of them I am amazed that your initial response was to critical of the portrayal of the Japanese. Dude, of all the filth on that screen that is about the last thing I noticed!! (I did however think that the sushi shop Japanese guy with the swords came across more like a western guy trying to act like an Italian). It would have been nice to have English sub-titles during the lengthy Japanese language parts. Buggered if I could tell what they were saying so I am not going to comment on the Japanese language skills of the non-Japanese actors. Hardly relevant anyway. And as for comments on Japanese stereotypes: Come on! This is getting thrown around far to much by far to many “I lived in Japan for a bit so I am in touch with the real thing” types. It is a trendy cliché driven comment. I live in Japan as well, have been for 18 months but it wasn't the stereotyping that saddened my heart. And hell, look at what this movie says about America, like I said in my original post on this topic: I sure hope that is a stereotype. I now add this: why bother?

 

There are two good things about this movie:

 

1) the excellent panpipe tune that played on and off throughout the film.

2) the fact that with a second episode to come, I get to boycott. Normally it is too late to take action after the event. Part 2 gives the chance to wind back the clock and tell QT to stuff off.

 

There are people who will think that db doesn't know or understand "cinema' so his comments are not really worth anything anyway. If you say this then you fall into that arrogant set of cinema heads that feel they see things that the average man can not. Get over yourselves. If you bother to listen to other s for once rather than indulging in your own self important opinions you may actually learn from those around you.

 

So that is that. Quite simply I demand far greater and better things in my life than what this movie offered. However, I suspect that I am again walking alone, which is what I think saddened me more than anything.

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Say it like it is bro!

 

If you want to feel more pissed off, read Empire of the Sun and then see the film. That was an atrocity that was committed a long time ago, but just thinking about it can still get me enraged.

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Sounds like someone else is in need of therapy now... ;\)

 

But really, what did you expect... It's QT, and it's lack of storyline/violence had already been well exposed, and the trailers looked crap. What possessed you to see it in the cinema?

 

As for the status of film 'buffs' the one's I know seem to praise just about anything, let alone anything slightly new or riskae. I liken them to glutons, they'll shovel anything down in volume and think it makes them a connoisseur. I (as a critic, if not a good one) have to work with an office full of 'buffs' and listen to them heap praise on pop pulp, long having given up my injections of objectivity...

 

There is definitely a dearth of quality films out there, and, it seems, of critics prepared to stand up to the advertising hype that tells you how it's gonna be before it's even been released.

 

Kill Bill-I think I'll wait for it to be on cable

Matrix 2-crap (is that objective enough...)

Matrix 3-I think I'll wait for it to be on cable

 

Bring on the next vacuum-packed regurgitation from the minds of our great directors...

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Man, the only therapy I need is a week at the beach and a ....

 

On the movie: I had not read any reviews or even seen a preview. I knew what QT was like and didn't mind the likes of Pulp Fiction or R' Dogs. Although the try hardishness was very evident in them as well. This was only the 3rd time I have been to the cinema in 3 years. This makes me sound selective, but it is in fact very random what i see. This time a friend suggested we go to the movies and suggested this movie. I don't even know what else is even showing at the moment so I just went along with the idea. I suppose you think I sound defensive. Yeah well **** you. ;\)

 

As for movies in general... I went off all them years ago when the Batman phenom first hit. Never bothered going back very much since then.

 

I saw a pirate copy of a movie recently: School of Rock. I do not know if it is a great movie, but it made me laugh and feel ok inside so I do not mind having seen it. This is my yardstick. At a minimum this is the mindset I need to be left with.

 

As for movie reviewers. What's that crap. do they go to a special school to learn how to all say the same things at the same time about the same concepts? They are always so scripted and follow a very certain style of writing. It is like "I am a movie reviewer and even if I am crap at it I am certainly going to make sure I sound like one".

 

Now, where is my beach.

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db, nice review and boy are you hot about this one!

 

Thanks for qualifying it, but the comments about stereotypes that I wrote up originate from my Japanese wife. I thought they were valid, and didn't realize that other white boys were saying things like this for self-aggrandizement. I'm living in a redneck town in Michigan, and am out of the loop on that kind of thing.

 

As for me, the comment that endures is merely that this movie sucked and was so small compared to the hype.

 

What you said about QT...I agree totally. I have never been able to look at a pic of his face without thinking "this guy lives to think he is sooooo coool..." I really hate his moistly sneering pouting baby lips.

 

I don't normally end up judging movies by whether they add something positive to the world. This one must have pushed you to some limit, to whip out this standard of judgment! Upon reflection, I tend to agree with this thesis. The issue then becomes how you define "positive".

 

Seems a good topic for a beer discussion or a term paper. But I don't think we have to go that far in the case of Kill Bill...the movie is sucky enough without reference this additional thesis.

 

Obviously it is not going to be a major contributor to the worldwide well of artistic beauty and creation, but its popularity begs the question, "Why do people like to go and see bad movies?"

 

I guess the answer is that this bad movie maybe did add something to the world for a lot of people: entertainment and good times.

 

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I've just figgered out what 'panpipes' are...

 

Being of a technical translation bent, that mispelling triggered all sorts of monstrous images in my head.

 

I expect you can add to QT's profits by purchasing the soundtrack CD.

 

While I have hated most of the QT films I've seen, I thought Pulp Fiction was a supremely entertaining film. Lots of non-stereotypical lowlifes interacting and crossing paths in creative ways, with some great performances from actors who don't always give them. It was funny precisely because it made the 'cool guys' seem like proper dorks.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by badmigraine:
I don't normally end up judging movies by whether they add something positive to the world. This one must have pushed you to some limit, to whip out this standard of judgment!
yeah, I was a little annoyed at myself for thinking in terms of this yard stick. But I couldn't avoid it. As I watched one sick theme after another I kept coming back to wondering why I or anyone else needs to see this. Of all the things in the world, how is this thing in any weay possibly worth any of my energy or effort. I could handle the violence no problems, but that is not to say that I was better in any way for having seen it. Essentially I looked at the screen and decided I could see nothing good, all I saw was rotten crap that didn't help my life in any way.

I really do not know why I seem to think like this these days. I just see ugly crap and think nah, nothing good about that, leave me alone. This movie was bursting with crap so I couldn't help think this in buckets.

Sure, movies don't have to do anything good for the world, they just have to make money. I am a capatalist so this I suppose is understandable to me. But it would be nice if they bothered to deliver something small to each person that sees it. It would also be nice if people started saying "no, take this crap and stick it" to all the drivel that we get served on us these days. This goes for more than just movies.

This is going to be the dumbest thing that I have ever said. Ever. But what would you rather watch for 2 hours: a sunset over the mountains or Kill Bill 2. My point is that there are so many better things in the world than this crud, so why bother watching it in the first place?

(Here is a fun twist to think about. What would you rather see for 2 hours: a movie of a sunset or a real life Kill Bill? A movie sunset would bore most to tears and no one would want to really see all that killing for real. Why then do we want to satisfy our minds by watching it in fiction?)

ps - BM, sorry, should have remembered that your wife gave the imputus for the steroT comments. My slip up.
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O11 - yes, I also very much liked Pulp Fiction at the time.

 

As for the spelling of panpipes, there is very little agreement throughout the world.

 

Pan Pipes

Pan-pipes

Panpipes

 

(plus you can replace the word 'pipes' with 'flute' in all of the above).

 

Not sure what your preferred spelling is.

 

The better name would probably be 'Syrinx' from Greek mythology. But then, what if we are referring to Bolivian or Chinese variants of the instrument? Syrinx is no longer correct.

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Why are you picking on this movie you ask, because you have not been de-sensitized. At the risk of being characterized as an "arrogant cinema head," I imagine if you did expose yourself to more movies you might find quite a few that are a whole lot worse, a hell of a lot less entertaining, and that are also not positively affecting you, me, or society. But what is this, some kind of crusade? I enjoyed the movie. It was entertaining. Not as much as Pulp Fiction or Reservoir Dogs, and it wasn't as good as a dozen other movies I have seen this year and enjoyed more. But I found the film making stylish and even a bit (dare I say) artistic. I didn't have super high expectations, but I wasn't disappointed, and in my book that gets a thumbs up.

 

I am not exactly sure what you are getting at with your rant there. Is this a commentary on our entire society? How many people's work does not add something positive to our society? And who is to determine if it is positive? Sure it is violent, but the violence didn't leave me uneasy or in a mood to go kick someone's ass. If you spent a couple hours looking at paintings by an artist that you didn't like, would you say the world would be better off without him or his paintings?

 

I don't have a problem with someone disliking a movie I liked. I can see where badmigraine is coming from with his criticism. However, it sounds to me like you are saying that people that enjoyed Kill Bill are somehow contributing to the disintegration of our society's moral fiber and that we and our immoral, ultra violent leader Quentin Tarantino have no place in your world. Now who is feeding their ego?

 

...Whatya think of that, punk? ;\)

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 Quote:
Originally posted by enderzero:
However, it sounds to me like you are saying that people that enjoyed Kill Bill are somehow contributing to the disintegration of our society's moral fiber and that we and our immoral, ultra violent leader Quentin Tarantino have no place in your world. Now who is feeding their ego?

...Whatya think of that, punk? ;\)
No, I just dont need unhappy things in my life. This guy managed to make a rather contrived artistic film that was unhappy. There are 1000's more that are worse, I am sure. I do honestly think he was out to masterbate his own ego. It doesn't have much impact when I say this, but it is the most simple way I can say it: I like good things, and I saw nothing good in that film, it offered me nothing". So indeed, QT and his film have no place in my world. Same goes for all the other crap movies I have never seen.

My rant was certainly influenced by the fact that I live in a place like Tokyo where I am deprived of the special things in my life. So when I see things like this movie it pains me to think that this is served up to us en mass, yet I struggle to get a chance to 'smell the flowers', so to speak.

(that flower comment was include to give sb-freak a chance to call me gay ;\) )
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I saw it last night. I thought it was ok, not terrible but not brilliant either. I'll probably watch the 2nd one on video just to see what happens, but won't be going to the theater to watch it.

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Well I saw it and wasn't blown away with it. A bit disappointed, not bad but not amazing. I don't think I'll be going to the cinema to see part 2, probably catch it on dvd.

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The DVD just came out here on base today and I purchased it. I saw this movie in Tokyo, and not being a great speaker of Japanese, felt I missed a bunch since the movie lacked English subtitles.

 

On the first go-around, I did enjoy the movie. After watching it with the subtitles, I liked it even more.

 

I re-read through most of this post and frankly don't understand much of the disdain some of you have for this film and QT. I watched 'the making of Kill Bill' before I watched the movie tonight, and it gave a lot of insight as to why QT did what he did and the influences that directed him in the making of this movie. It was quite interesting and somewhat different from what has been discussed here. The stereotypes? :rolleyes:

 

If you didn't like it, fine. Some of you are delving way too deep into it though. Most of the script was thought up discussed during the filming of Pulp Fiction and it was meant to be fun, in a QT style. The main character of the movie was in a lot of ways modeled after a similar female character in a Japanese movie from the 70's.

 

Kill Bill Volume 2 comes out this spring in the US. Not sure about here in Japan. I'll definately be seeing it.

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My disdain for QT arose after I watched him talking about where the title 'Pulp Fiction' came from (a real headscratcher that one). In spite of the basic redundancy of the topic overall, he gushed on for 2 minutes repeating himself 3 times. After the 2nd time I thought 'this guy is an overrated and patronising dork with a very low level of culture'.

 

While I enjoyed Pulp Fiction and True Romance, I felt that there was nothing else on offer, and that a lot of credit was due to the talents of many people besides QT.

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