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Just saw it with my wife...she found it hard to sit through for all the stereotyping, cheap shots and demeaningly Hollywood-Asian-cinephile-driven treatment of Japan and Japanese.

 

We went in there knowing how it was pitched, liking other Tarantino flicks, and aware that it is supposed to be hip and tongue-in-cheek.

 

But in the end it seemed like just a "hip" re-doing of a white otaku's imaginary fetishistically Asian cinematopia. Another white-guy-out-Asians-the-Asians flick. The latest nugget in a bucket of bad broth starting with Shogun, extending through the Karate Kid and American Ninja flicks, Rising Sun and, as may be the sad case, re-done yet again in the latest Tom Cruise vehicle "The Last Samurai".

 

That being said, we enjoyed the first fight scene in the kitchen, the anime sequence, and found the cartoonlike violence fun to watch.

 

But that cannot save it for us! Two thumbs down but see it anyway...

 

Just wondering: did the Japanese media or word-of-mouth have anything bad to say about this flick?

 

It was praised to the skies here as some kind of work of genius...

 

:rolleyes:

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Originally posted by badmigraine:
all the stereotyping, cheap shots and demeaningly Hollywood-Asian-cinephile-driven treatment of Japan and Japanese.
I assume (and certainly hope!!) that Hollywood applies the same not-reality treatment to it's cinema portrayal of America. If not, ie "movie-America" is accurate, then what a strange country and people.
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I don't know... I don't perceive great uniformity or consistency from one Hollywood film to another, so I'm not really sure what general statement to make about how Hollywood views or depicts the USA.

 

One thing I noticed while watching Kill Bill was that much of it transpires in an imaginary, fetishized Asian cinema space borne out of exhaustive viewing of kung fu, Samurai and Hong-Kong action flicks...and that is a purely fictive, imaginary space. So it's easy for Tarantino and Hollywood to transgress, manipulate or enact within it, and no judge or populus from this imaginary space could ever materialize and complain or take them to task for what they have done.

 

The USA, by contrast, really exists and is the place where most of Hollywood's audience lives. It's a lot harder for Hollywood to pull tricks, sling stereotypes or merely invent characters/write dialogue when there is such a constant reality referent.

 

Look at it this way: will the Monkey Kung-Fu Master ever leap off a frame of cellulite and write a letter to the editor?

 

Probably not. But there are plenty of people in the USA who would, and do, when Hollywood does another Driving Miss Daisy or what have you.

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Originally posted by badmigraine:
It's a lot harder for Hollywood to pull tricks, sling stereotypes or merely invent characters/write dialogue when there is such a constant reality referent.
icon4.gif Reality check required! icon4.gif

I found db's observation striking. It's the main reason I don't watch films anymore - there's no realism to them at all. Indeed, the only films I've found memorable are the ones that take place in a complete fantasy space - like 'Cube' and 'Sleepy Hollow'.
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Ah folks, IT'S JUST A MOVIE!

 

And I think if you read an interview on QT's take of the movie you will find that it is meant to have the stereo types in it as he is an avid fan of Japanese Manga and wanted to take that to the big screen.

 

just relax sit back and enjoy the movie for whatever and foget about close to hoem stereo types. Sheesh, you people really need to be reborn in the country stereo typed for its sheep.

 

Peace all. ;\)

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I found it extra confusing with all the Japanese which, though I DID try, I failed to understand.

 

Plus the fact that it was a tacky mess of a film. He was trying to include a load of bogus iconography, like her yellow suit, the winter garden fight scene etc.

 

It didn't work. The whole point of Tarintino's other films was unique way he jiggled his narrative, but Kill Bill was an over stylised , bloated mess!

 

HE was trying to pay homage to his favourite Japanese 'ultra violence' 70's film maker....which I found noble, but then again quite self indulgent at times!

 

Vol 2....no thanks I'd rather watch Star Wars Episode 12!

 

But Uma Thurman made me feel warm on the inside.... \:D

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I'm not here saying this movie is a social outrage, offensive and should be boycotted.

 

Nor am I taking an ivory-tower position that the movie fails this standard or that test of quality.

 

I'm just saying after all the hype and rave reviews, well, it kind of sucked.

 

Let me put it this way:

 

Know how it is in Japan when you see a Japanese movie scene set in New York City, but all the white guys have Aussie accents and the black guys have African accents and they all act weird, with mannerisms and statements that only a Japanese person would ascribe to a "gaijin"? Because that's what the Japanese director told them to do, or because that's what the audience wants its gaijin to be like? Then maybe later how about a Japanese woman single-handedly kills 250 gaijin with blood spraying everywere and a spanking of an especially stereotypical "gaijin" looking one?

 

That's Kill Bill.

 

It really is like a bad whiff of QT's mental flatulent: you can smell the rotten leftover bits of what his brain digested in previous meals.

 

Yeah, I read the interviews and articles too...why does QT's saying in advance what he was going to do change anything?

 

"I've intentionlly assembled here a few rotten stereotypes because I think they are really cool..."

 

That makes it OK?

 

I'm all for a good flick and the last guy you'd find picketing Jar-Jar Binks. I'm not proclaiming that this movie is harmful, I'm just saying that I found it annoying and ignorantly smug...and explaining why.

 

It's pretty rare that a flick shoulders me out so completely that in the middle of it I sort of "wake up", become conscious of sitting in a flickering room, listening to the noise of the projector instead of the soundtrack, and looking around at the other customers to see their clothes, snack foods and reactions...that, to me, is a sign of Badness.

 

This movie is not "just a movie". It's a middling-to-bad movie that in no way lives up to the hype.

 

That's what I personally thought about it.

 

As for my J wife, who rarely complains about this type of thing, she found it outright hard to watch. Why?

 

Because--and this has nothing to do with stereotypes--some parts of it seemed to her so stupid and badly done.

 

And because it suggests to her a heretofore unsuspected universe of stereotyping of Japan and Asians by Americans.

 

Ocean, I was not suggesting that Hollywood makes realistic movies about the USA.

 

What I meant was, when a Hollywood movie is set in the USA, the scenes, settings, characters and speech are fairly true to the actual locale and population...we don't get French guys to do the set decoration and dialogue for Boston bar scenes. That's because we all live here in America and would notice if the continuity and reality were bogus.

 

In contrast, movies like Kill Bill are set in a fictional space where nobody really lives...so nobody can complain that the items on the countertop wouldn't have been there, that this sort of person or restaurant would never have looked like this or been in this place, etc.

 

This is one place Kill Bill fell down for my wife. As a native Japanese, she found some of the scenes, sets, props, and characters to be off, awkwardly done, or just odd--even allowing for the fact that this movie is supposed to be hip, tongue-in-cheek, an homage, an anime-cum-chop-socky thrill ride, etc. It just didn't work for her. Films are not supposed to do that. You shouldn't have to work hard to suspend your disbelief during a film.

 

I, as an American, have seen the same oddness or cinematic bugs in Sergio Leone's fictional cowboy world, and in Japanese movies that include a "gaijin" who says things or has mannerisms that gaijin don't really have unless they are imitating Japanese forms or mannerisms.

 

And my wife, having noticed these things, took it to the next, obvious level. "This guy Tarantino is kind of a dope, if this is how he thinks Japanese--even cartoon ones--would act or talk.

 

The movie ain't that great. Don't believe the hype.

 

Yes, it is "just a movie". A middling-to-bad movie, at that.

 

\:D

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Aha, I see. So it seems you're saying that at the micro-level, Hollywood films about America have a superficial realism. Unfortunately at the meta-level they're about as true to life as, well, US politics.

 

I don't think I'll be seeing Kill Bill anyway - I'd rather spend my time watching something Japanese. Did anybody see "Samurai Fiction"? I want to see it.

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A "micro-reality"...nicely put.

 

I want to see Samurai Fiction too. I'm afraid to rent it until I hear from someone else what it is like.

 

Did I mention that I went on a few dates with Lucy Liu back in 1987/88?

 

\:D

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We found a place that shows second-run films for $1.50. Has 10 big screens too.

 

Now playing are 28 Days Later, Terminator 3, Jeepers Creepers 2, Charlie's Angels 2, Tomb Raider 2 and a few others that I never would have paid full price to see, but that now seem a great idea at $1.50.

 

\:D

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Saw it this weekend and so many people in the theater were laughing whenever Lucy Liu tried to speak Japanese; it was quite painful, but I give her an "A" for effort. A bit too cartoonish for a QT flick, even if it was "intentional". I'll still definately see Volume 2. In all fairness, the Americans portrayed in the movie were just as stereotyped as the Asians...but their accents weren't as horribly done.

 

I've wanted to see "Samurai Fiction" for about 5 years now! I haven't heard ANY reviews of it and it was only in theaters for a heartbeat (which leads me to believe that it wasn't too good). I just remember loving the trailer. If anyone sees it, I'd like to hear a review too.

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Just saw it. Pretty good. Will see Vol. 2

But if there is only 2 volumes why not call it part 2. Maybe he will surprise everybody with a third.

 

I didn't like the adds in the beginning though. There was this Japanese horror movie add with all these creapy looking dead people all over the houses. Kind of like a sixth sense flick. It looked really scary.

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saw it, enjoyed it, will see vol 2. thought it was a bit gory (but wasnt that the point?) and i had to look away when the blood was really gushing. one thing that irked me was lucy lui's kimono-- it was beautiful but the obi looked kinda loose and low and just not right. was it? or was it just me?

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The wife & I saw it last night. This might sound lame but I didn't even know that it was in parts or volumes ( that shows how much i actually heard about the flick before going)

Overall it wasn't bad, i guess it won't really appeal that much to Japanese people because they have been seeing samurai movies for ever, but I did think that they did a pretty good job at the "Japanese bits".

I really liked Gogo chan! ( I am I turning into a dirty jiji??) Its a bummer that she won't be in vol.2 but maybe she will? also she could have done with loose socks.

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