Kyoto or Nara?

[viv&kev 0]

If you've been to both, which do you prefer? We actually prefer Nara, Kyoto was a bit of a disappointment in a way because it was more "big city" than initially imagined.

[echineko 1]

I love both of them.

[Ocean11 0]

Kyoto disappoints everybody - it's living on its reputation as one of the beautiful cities of the world before its wanton and ongoing destruction. However Kyoto still has considerable charm although it takes many visits to find it.

 

Nara park and the ancient sites near Nara have yet to be spoiled to the same extent as Kyoto has been, but a lot of Nara outside the touristy areas is the usual grim jumble of pre-modern Japanese building.

 

Koizumi's bid to increase tourism to Japan will soon in run into the 'disappointment on actually seeing Kyoto' factor.

[yodel 0]

Ocean11 said it well. Kyoto was disappointing for me too...

[Dims 0]

And how is Kyoto tower

Not only is it one of the biggest white elephants I have ever seen but I think the last time it saw a lick of paint was in the 70's. It's like a Jestons nightmare. And the new station is ugly as well. Other parts, especially the gardens, were very beautiful though. Why did they have to wreck Kyoto?

[rach 1]

I like both, been to them quite a lot. But if someone comes to Japan first time, I'll recommend Nara first. But everyone has to go to Kyoto, right? They just need to know where to go and realise its a big city.

[damian 0]

I went to both places this weekend. I did not have much time there so my opinion is no doubt poorly formed. In short, I went to Kyoto with low expectations and they were met. However, what I did see was a damn site better than Tokyo.

 

Kyoto seemed quite decent, just not equalling the fuss that is made about it by my Japanese co-workers. I am sure if you spent a proper amount of time and knew where to look you would find some great spots, unlike Tokyo where no amount of time or inside info will find anything worth seeing for more than 3.7 seconds and certainly not twice. Obviously I think little of Tokyo. From what I saw of both Kyoto and Osaka, I would leave Tokyo for them in a flash.

 

The tower in Kyoto is a joke. I had not heard about it at all. When we arrived my Japanese friend & guide purposefully made no mention of it. After about 2 minutes of being there I saw it and said "what the f*** is that ?!" She had hoped I wouldn't notice but when I did she delivered a Kyoto tower bashing that would make any westerner proud!

 

Parts of Kyoto had nice wide streets in an organised fashion, a little like Ginza. Yet with a 2 minute walk you could find super narrow and messy side streets that had a reasonable character to them. I enjoyed both of these aspects. Also having a river through the city seemed to add a bit of geographical personality that Tokyo lacks. Same goes for Osaka (where I spent Saturday night). A river and a bridge plus a few hills makes a world of difference to a city's feel. Besides the Tower, these were the first things that I noticed about both Osaka and Kyoto.

 

Nara was quite an ok surprise. My guide had spent 4 years at university there so she knew quite well various corners of the city that were good to see. The crowds were quite low, the sakura were there and I found some really old (and neglected) man made structures that were completely ignored by the tourist/sightseeing groups. I also had a few off beat tours of some places that my friend wanted to see, for example parts of the university and a few cheap udon places. I ate udon 4 times in one day. When my friend was at university she was the tutor for a local high school student who was the daughter of temple priest. As a result my friend would visit the amazing inside residential area & gardens of the big shrine/temple priest. The house was just in front of the 'fire' temple.

 

In Kyoto and Nara we both commented on the appalling ability for Japanese houses to stand the test of time. It is so sad to see them being haphazardly maintained with sheets of rusting corrugated iron! It is so ugly, these old dark wooden Japanese houses do not deserve such poor treatment. But so many were originally built with very soft wood and mud/grass walls. Neither materials is suitable for the long term nor to support the weight of the traditional roofing tiles (at least that is my uneducated guess). These old house get torn down and slowly replaced with small to medium sized 'modern' Japanese apartment blocks and houses. These 'modern' structures are made with the same disregard for long term survival. They fall apart within a few years and look like shit. To be honest, they look like shit to begin with. Who ever is responsible for the design of the standard template modern Japanese house needs a kick in the knees. Doesn't he realise that he is making dog ugly crappy houses that just wont last and will do nothing but detract from the area as each year passes. Civic planning is a pain in Australia, Every renovation that you want to make to your house requires approval, but at least it saves the neighborhood from shit hole 'houses' being built. Japan needs to take a good hard look at its housing industry. I once spent a day wondering the streets of Nezu in Tokyo (Chiyoda line, near-ish to Ueno). It had little corners and streets that I reminded me of the dilapidated old Japanese houses that I saw in Nara. With a little effort and respect for heritage, Nezu could have been maintained and restored as a great little 'old Edo' environment in Tokyo. But no, it is now a near shanty town (in which I was actually going to live).

 

What I fail to understand is this contradiction: So many Japanese restaurants are stunning. They are examples of fantastic interior design. Really minimalist, clean, simple. Little pebbles, small plants, cool looking white lanterns, running water. Really rustic and classic looking. To me it is obvious that Japanese people have a real skill in design and frequently create things of beauty. Japanese people themselves spend all their time appreciating subtle and beautiful things (sakura, autumn colours, the arrangement of food on a plate and the colour combinations thereof etc). It seems that the community at large has an eye for the beautiful and classic. Why the hell then do they create and live in such ugly houses that turn their towns and cities into shit holes that no one wants to visit or see? Already it is not possible to see anything decent (man made) in Japan without looking at a temple or shrine. Take away these structures and there is little left that reflects old Japan. This country is/has been slowly destroying itself all for the 'benefit' of appearing to be a modern and advanced member of the international community. It may sound like I am ranting, but I actually find it quite upsetting for Japan and I feel upset when I see it. Does Japan know what it has done and what it continues to do? Doesn't Japan realise that it could have/can develop into a respectable and proud modern Japan that sits in the international community yet is not a poor adaptation of so many things crappy and western? Why do many Japanese people I meet seem to think that Japan has taken the wrong path and the solution is the rejection of all things west and a return to the older ways of thinking? Why the extremes, where is the balance? Aren't Japanese people renound for their balanced vision and mind? Sometimes it appears not at all.

 

A little tongue in cheek, but Japan's two mistakes were:

 

1. trying to imitate the west

2. deciding that America represented the 'best of the west' and using it as a role model to copy. Huge error that one

 

Another contradiction that I see is the obvious passion that Japanese people have for food yet they let Macadonaldos, KFC, Starbucks, Japanese 'curry', famuri resu etc permeate their diets. Anyone who loves the enjoyment of good food would never un-begrudgingly eat these things or at these places. But that is another topic.

[damian 0]

oh yeah:

 

bochi bochi den na

[Ocean11 0]

One slight glimmer of hope; there is now a TV program where a selected architect makes over an old Japanese house each week by pulling out all the inconvenient innards, levelling the floors and making them far more liveable without destroying its character. This suggests that the modern technologies required for living harmoniously with the old may at last have reached premodern Japan, and that one aspect of harmony at least may actually become a reality in Japan and not just an empty mantra.

 

> Japanese people themselves spend all their time appreciating subtle and beautiful things (sakura, autumn colours, the arrangement of food on a plate and the colour combinations thereof etc)

 

Partly true I would say, but in a group fetishic way, and with an exceedingly narrow range of vision.

[Siren 0]

That programme is great isn't it!

 

Unfortunately I don't think there are too many of those 'reform' artists around.

[TheOrange 0]

I've seen that too - is it on every week then?

 

I would recommend people to go to both, but you need to know where to go in advance. My sister was really disappointed with Kyoto when she went, but fell in love with Nara.

[IIIII 2]

I generally find Japanese houses to be depressing, dark and dirty.

[cal 6]

Nice write up db - is your employer paying you for this essay-writing time?

[enderzero 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by d=(^o^)=b:
Doesn't he realise that he is making dog ugly crappy houses that just wont last and will do nothing but detract from the area as each year passes.

Why the hell then do they create and live in such ugly houses that turn their towns and cities into shit holes that no one wants to visit or see?

I agree. My biggest complaint about Japan.

[fondler 0]

I love Kyoto - got to get to know the place and where to be, but once you do, great city.

[brit-gob 9]

I know some people who live in disgustingly dirty, old, smelly, utterly horrible houses. And they have a lovely brand new, very expensive, sports car.

[brit-gob 9]

Ooops, wrong thread

[brit-gob 9]

Actually, no it wasnt.

 

Sorry, going a bit batty this avvy

[slimeypete 0]

I find even new Japanese houses strangely cold.

 

Now if they had some nice thick carpets...

[oblivion 5]

The people who have come to visit me in Japan have all preferred Nara over Kyoto. I do too.

[nige 0]

Kyoto is definitely somewhere that needs time and discovery, but I love that city. Perhaps not for exactly the same reasons as the general public in Japan, but..