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I saw a 2001 Prius in a carpark today and had a good luck at it. It looks good - certainly more compact than the new ones, and that price you paid seems reasonable too.

 

How's the view out the rear window on the 2001 version? The new version with its split window is not so good in that respect.

 

Apparently the demand for hybrids is ballooning in the US. Good thing I think.

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The rear view is fine but I have read that although the split window in the new model may seem strange, apparently is doesn't interfere with driving...

 

We have access to a licenced auction dealer and pay only a small fee in addition to the wholesale price so we did get a great deal - I have been tracking the auction prices again because I will buy another one but the prices are going up due to demand for used Prius' even in Japan.

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fjef

 

Good to hear you're happy with the car. For value for money, a second-hand one is easily the best. The new ones get better mileage, but only just and nowhere near enough to cover the price premium. The fuel economy of the Prius seems to vary wildly between drivers, but the figures below serve as a general trend.

 

http://response.jp/e-nenpi/rank.html

 

If you use the coasting techniques described in Prius Chat or the Japanese Prius Mania, you can supposedly get mileage approaching the figures in the brochure. Even with the above figures where the Prius is nowhere near the advertised numbers, it's still way better than cars of a comparable size. You can leadfoot it or be stuck in a jam and still come out on top.

 

While the older ones are cheap, I still think we're going to get a new one because a hatchback with folding seats is more suited to what we need. It's ostensibly going to be my wife's car, and to be honest, I can't see her driving a sedan. Young Japanese generally associate them with old blokes. My wife originally wanted a "mama" car in a vibrant colour, but I've talked her into the Prius which is much cleaner and more economical than a small car. Its bigger than we need, but is much cheaper to run than a small car. It's really counterintuitive. With the rebate and fuel savings, a new Prius will work out no more expensive than a new mama car, and the hatchback should be big enough to serve as our main car in place of my SUV most of the time. That only gets 10km/l off diesel on a good day, and emits a lot more gunk than a Prius. Hopefully, I'll only use it in winter when the fuel economy of the Prius takes a hit. When the SUV conks out, we'll get a smaller car if the Prius proves to be big enough.

 

Its good to see the Prius selling well in the States. You would think it would do better in Europe where gas prices are much higher. Maybe its the automatic transmission. The example of Europe seems to show that fuel can go up a fair bit more without demand falling. People will moan, but their habits will not change.

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I think you'll find that you don't need to change your driving habits much at all to get amazing mileage. I read all the driving technique posts and have experimented a lot but my wife (who does not care about the details and just drives) got the same or better mileage than I did. Now I just drive and we average about 23 kms/litre which is just fine with me and above the figures on the site in your link. In February when it was cold, we averaged about 21 kms/litre so the weather is a factor. Short trips (to the beer store and back) will lower your average, longer trips are better. We expect our milage to improve a bit more now that cold weather is over.

 

What figures are listed in the brochure you are referring to?

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It's a little hard to tell as I'm not doing any objective testing, but I think my car is going a little further between fillups with the Intake Magic in place. I think it's a good option for anybody who wants to drive cleaner but isn't ready to change cars completely.

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I have heard about Intake Magic - is it available at all the car supply places? I would like to try one on my Delica Diesel 4X4 - if it works on a turbo diesel.

 

New Hybird systems are now available in SUVs and vans - but early adopter prices are still very high. Intake Magic might help make the wait time more efficient - I'll try one if it will fit in my van.

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> I have heard about Intake Magic - is it available at all the car supply places?

 

I phoned Autobacs and they didn't have them. My local filling station had never heard of them. You can get them from the places that I linked to on page 1. There are different sizes for different engines. You might need to check if they work with turbo.

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The new Prius catalog puts the basic model at 35.5km/l (!), the one with VSC (over/under steering control) at 32, and the deluxe at 30. That's on the Japanese 10/15 test, whatever that is. For the old Prius, it was something like 26 to 29km/l.

 

Someone put the following foreign test figures up on kakaku.com for the new model Prius. It's in a thread where people complain about not getting anywhere near the above figures.

 

USA (21.7-25.4km/L)

UK   (24.0- 28.6 km/L)

Taiwan (20-23.3km/L)

Switzerland (20-23.8km/L)

Germany (20-23.8km/L)

Italy (21.7-25.5km/L)

 

I can be bothered to look it up and check, since it will all be in miles, US gallons, UK gallons, or foreign languages, but the numbers sound more realistic than the Japanese ones.

 

I don't know who administers the Japanese test. No other car achieves its Japanese test figure (see e-nenpi) and you'd be stupid to believe them for any car. However, in percentage terms, the Prius test result is even more unrealistic than the normal. It gets people's hopes up a bit too much and encourages an unnecessary backlash.

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Mr~, I wonder if you'd be interested in this investment . It's an alternative energy fund based in Iida. You can buy one share for 10 man with a 2% return over 10 years. Better than letting your money rot in the bank or PO. I think we might buy a slice.

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The country figures you posted look about right to me- the more highway driving you do, the lower your mileage in the Pruis as the gas engine is always on at higher speeds. It really does best on Japanese country roads where you can cruise forever at 50 to 80 kms/hr.

 

Compared with other vehicles, its hard to complain if you are getting over 20kms/litre - Toyota doesn't really need to bs about mileage.

 

I'm going shopping for Intake Magic tomorrow for both my Prius and the Delica diesel - I especially hope it works in the Delica - I hardly use it anymore after getting the Prius.

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oh yeah - don't forget that a new Prius needs a long break-in period before you start seeing maximum fuel efficiency - some say as much as 20,000 kms...

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  • 2 weeks later...

The priuschat.com forum is down at the moment - there are detailed technical discussion that explain this better than I can there but the way I understand it is like this:

 

All cars have an engine break in period before they achieve maximum fuel efficiency - rough metal parts wear smooth, therefore there is less resistance over time. The Pruis ICE (Internal Combustion Engline) does not run all the time - it is used to assist the electric motor and charge the batteries. Fuel efficiency depends on the ICE and how often it is running - so if it is used less, the break in period is longer.

 

This is not to say you won't get great mileage in a new Prius, It just won't be as good as it gets until the ICE is fully broken in.

 

Most Prius drivers also go through a break in period where you play with the gas pedal, brakes and watch the computer display to learn how to drive to obtain the best possible gas mileage. I did that for a while - now I just drive it. A truly amazing car...

 

With the warmer weather, I am getting over 23 kms/liter (well over 50 mpg US) - which is about 1000 kms/tank as well as being the least polluting car on the road...

 

Sorry about the new avatar - I am trying to get in shape for next season...

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Nice one, fjef. We ordered a new one last week. It should come in June.

 

On the Japanese Prius Mania site, there seems to be a hardcore group of otaku (anorak types) who are totally obsessed with mileage. In true otaku fashion, they only know how to take things to extremes. They've got various mods like covering the front grill in winter to keep the engine warm and a "sweet spot" acceleration technique that involves a magical "inbetween" state for the energy flow display you get on the touch screen. To achieve it, they recommend taking your shoe off for heightened control of the accelerator. Its quite hard to follow what they're on about without actually driving the car, but entertaining all the same. Here's the numbers for the bloke that seems to be the leader. He has hit 30km/l off virtually every tank.

 

http://eshy.s22.xrea.com/cgi-bin/nenpi/nlist.cgi?hn=%94%92%82%CCEPV%82Q

 

The same guy was equally obsessed about his previous car, an Estima hybrid, so he has hit the ground running so to speak with his Prius.

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The new ones are really nice - you'll love it!

 

It takes a but of practice at first but there is a pedal position that puts the car in a true coast - best if you are on a slight decline so you don't lose speed. Your fuel consuption is 0 and you can keep it like that as long as you don't need engine power. There are roads out here in Chiba where I can coast for 3 or 4 kms and keep up to traffic flow.

 

It gets a bit obsessive when you speed up quickly (efficient) then coast until someone comes up behind you - a Japanese Otaku got 1,700 kms on one tank of gas that way. When coasting, the car is completely silent (stealth mode - the engine is off). Fun to play with when you first start driving the car - but after a while the fuel saving driving techniques just become habit. I don't really notice now how its changed my driving until I fire up my old van.

 

I have been following auction prices on the Estima Hybrid van - but I am about to buy land and import a house so that toy will have to wait for a bit...

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 Quote:
Originally posted by fjef:
Sorry about the new avatar - I am trying to get in shape for next season...
lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

At the risk of opening up a whole can of worms, what kind of house are you importing and from where? Not a yurt?

If I used a car in Japan, from the sounds of all these posts this one would be the one to get. When I eventually move back to the west I'll probably get one (or whatever's worth getting by then).
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Not a yurt - the guy the built the yurt near here has already had his dome window blown off and a few other headaches so I am looking at a real 4 bedroom house from Canada - but in kit form. It has taken a while to do the research but I think we are almost ready to do it - offers are in on the land but we are dealing directly with farmers so its a bit, um, slow...

 

...but I am quite excited about the whole thing - Japanese houses depreciate from day 1 to about ¥0 after 10 years - an imported house can appreciate here if you do it right. I hope we do it right!

 

I just realised that with this avatar, the more I post, the fitter I get!

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Today's Yahoo 'Buzz Log' features hybrids, and I took a look at the Toyota Highlander. It's a shameless rip-off of the Subaru Forester, even down to the name!

 

I wonder when companies like Subaru are going to start making hybrids too. If they don't, and oil prices continue to rise, Toyota will have versions of every other maker's designs, but with a cheap-running system in it.

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If Toyota can make F1 cars and hybrids, there's no reason why Subaru can't make rally cars and hybrids. They should have more money for research now they've ditched Rod Stewart from the Legacy ads.

 

I hope Suzuki make a hybrid kei car. With a kei car, you pay less road tax, less for shaken, which is mainly taxes, less for highway tolls, and less for insurance than you do for a normal car, even a hybrid which is cleaner and uses less fuel. The real advantages of kei cars are that they use less materials, cause less damage to the roads, and have less momentum, making accidents less severe for whatever they hit. All the hybrids made so far are quite big cars.

 

With their next model, hopefully Toyota will make a plug-in hybrid that has a 10-20km electric range off a battery that can be recharged using cheap overnight electricity. The current Prius will only do a couple of km in electric-only mode. A relatively short range would be acceptable to start with because fuel economy and emissions are especially bad for short journeys where an internal combustion engine will not properly warm up. Of course, because such car is a hybrid, it would not be limited to the range I've mentioned. It would simply use gasoline once the battery is out.

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> now they've ditched Rod Stewart from the Legacy ads

"I say, have you seen my new car?"

 

There's a good list of all Japanese low-polluting vehicles on the Environment Agency website.

 

In Winning the Oil End Game , Amory Lovins et al discuss the size/materials/safety issue for vehicles and conclude that big size with new light materials/design is the best option for safety and efficiency. The free pdf available from this site is a very interesting (and encouraging) look at environmental and economic options. More politicians should read it...

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Well it looks like Suzuki have made a hybrid kei car, but its only a two seater that looks like a Smart car. The battery takes up most of the boot. It doesn't sound like its fuel economy is any better than an Insight, but at least the road tax etc. will be cheaper as the law stands.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Thar she blows!

 

blingmobile5ux.jpg

 

We got it last Thursday. First impressions are great. 300km at 24.3km/l mostly at highway speed uphill from Aichi to Okaya and then down and up to Hakuba. It gets another long runout tomorrow to the wife's maternity clinic, which is downhill to sea level. I'm going to shoot for mid thirties. We got it near the wifes place, and when I was there, I noticed that the old man has an old 300TD Merc estate rusting away on a bit of wasteland. It's a popular car for biodiesel or conversion to waste vegetable oil. If anyone knows anything about biodiesel/WVO specifically in Japan, put it up here. The "Journey to Forever" website people are in Japan, so I might hit them up about it.

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately), we're about to expand our eco-footprint by moving to a chez Ocean-sized goutei. I get a garage, but not the powered garage door. We just renting it, and its in good nick with double glazing and central heating in a lot of rooms, but its still going to take a lot of heating. I think I'll have to seal bits of it off.

 

What kind of place were you looking for?

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> If anyone knows anything about biodiesel/WVO specifically in Japan, put it up here.

 

Alright. I was looking into that today thinking it might be possible just to get a cheap diesel and put biodiesel in it. A search with 'バイオディーゼル' and '愛媛' brought up quite a lot of stuff about local government initiatives, as well as this company . So I phoned them, and after getting past their evident suspicion about what I might be up to, their salesman called me back and said that due to regulatory issues, they wouldn't be able to sell to individuals, although they hoped to have pumps in their DIY centres eventually. I pointed out that they need to get it to the punters quickly, and I got his gracious agreement with that. (I see on http://www.daiki-grp.co.jp/english/d-oil/small/index.htm that they've installed equipment in Nagano somewhere...) What's WVO BTW?

 

I guess the next step is to contact the local government and see what the regulatory situation is, and whether it will ultimately be prohibitive. Not quite sure where to start with that though.

 

As for a house, I want somewhere with enough land for a bio-bog and vegetable garden. It must be near enough to the city to bike to my favourite bars. The house must be made of local wood, be of passive solar design, and have active solar panels. Which is impossible at an affordable price. (It's also hard to convince all the providers involved that you're serious about all that when only one of you is really serious about it anyway.)

 

(Powered garage doors are a pain in the arse BTW. Better off without them.)

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