oblivion 5 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Were you pissed off before 9/11 with terrorist acts that go on in the world regularly, or did you just not know/not care about them? Link to post Share on other sites
mfurmane 0 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Sure, I was pissed off. But, it is different when your own social fabric is attacked and friends have been directly effected by it. Link to post Share on other sites
miteyak 0 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Liberty was not taken from Americans on 9/11, liberty might well have been attacked, and lives were taken, but the job of taking liberty(ies) was left to, and carried out quite proficiently by, the Bush administration. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Furm, there was no intelligence failure. The inspectors were saying all along there were no WMD - people of outstanding integrity like Scott Ritter. I don't know how you can compare somebody like him with Bush and not see the enormous difference. Anybody who misread what the inspectors said did so quite deliberately (yes, I know there were a lot of them - that's what makes it so shocking. And they're doing it again over Iran too.) Link to post Share on other sites
mfurmane 0 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 You are so full of hatred. Must be so tiring. Nonetheless, I will continue to respond to your anti-freedom comments as I really don't have much else to do. Information gathered by UN security inspectors does not constitute US intelligence and stop citing your biased reporters. Try distinguishing these writers' opinions/predictions/speculation from the facts and formulate your own opinion. Prather is a good scientist...but that is it. Ritter was a weapons inspector, yes, but if I recall he resigned becuase his personal opinions interfered with his ability to carry out his duties. He's a strong activist for gov't criticism. I respect that. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Furm, amazingly you have it ALL wrong. > Regardless of the intelligence blunder, There wasn't one. The contemporary cries of "Let the inspectors finish their work" gave the lie to all the bullshit now about intelligence blunder. Strictly for the gullible that. > Saddam Hussein was a threat to the entire world. He had no means even to defend his own country let alone threaten the whole world. Even if he had WMD, MAD still applies. (Ditto Iran and NK) > He conducted mass murders, tortured inmates, imprisoned the innocent, threatened neighboring countries. Tu quoque! Falluja, indiscriminate attacks on cities, use of depleted uranium munitions, Abu Ghraib, special rendition and the rest, and in the US's case, you don't even have to be a close neighbour to be threatened comprehensively. > His scientists manufactured nerve gases that were used in mass murders that numbered in the 100's of thousands. Tu quoque! Which country has the largest stocks of all kinds of WMD? Which country has used them extensively in all conflicts? Actually, it was European and American scientists that came up with the nerve gases used by Saddam, and the numbers of dead have never been confirmed - indeed have likely been wildly exaggerated. > It is pretty difficult to find someone whom doesn't believe the world is a better place with that bastard behind bars. Well now you've found one. Categorically, it would be better if he were still in power (of course it would be far better if he were ousted peacefully). I think if you conducted a poll in the ME or even Europe, you'd find plenty of people who agree. > I believe his elimination was necessary in the fight against global terrorism. Completely irrelevant. Domestic control and conventional forces were Saddam's fetishes, not terrorism. > I do not think diplomacy would have achieved this goal. Did you know Saddam even offered to hold elections to avoid being invaded. No? Underinformed? How much longer after an election would he have ended up in jail or hanged? As you say "I guess we'll never know". It seems there's a bit too much you don't really know to be taking Bush's crap at face value... Link to post Share on other sites
mfurmane 0 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 So bitter! Link to post Share on other sites
HoTRoD 2 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I don't usually join in these things. Furm, is that all you can come up with - "So bitter!"? Your accusations of hatred and bitterness just don't ring true. Read the thread again will you. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Yes. I find it hard to be lighthearted about criminal deceit, the destruction of the world environment and security, and the deaths of thousands of people. I'm looking forward to you getting drafted. Link to post Share on other sites
mfurmane 0 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 But you were happy when Saddam Hussein was doing these things with absolutely no foreseeable end. I am too old to get drafted. Link to post Share on other sites
mfurmane 0 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Sorry...just noticed the prior post by HoRoTD. Ok...I will argue against his points. There are so many that are merely crap littered with latin "i know you are but what am I's." First and foremost, not only did Saddam offer to hold elections. HE DID. And when the voters showed up at the polls their ballots were already marked. Crazy! Regarding WMD: I enjoyed your speculation on this point. Intelligence Blunder yes. CONGRESS saw intelligence the same as our President and voted to go to war. Bad intelligence, not a story that was made up after the fact. Does this chain of events confuse you somehow? Saddam v. Post Saddam: your opinion here is just too bad. Maybe it would be better for you in your comfy 2-flat if Saddam was in power...no care about the tortured and oppressed Iraqi's? In listing Saddam's fetishes you forgot to include allowing terrorists like your pal UBL to set up shop in his country. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Wrong on both counts, again. How wrong can a person be before they get tired of it? Furm, there aren't enough really young Americans to sort out the liberty woes of the Cubans, the North Koreans, the Sudanese, the Chinese, the Burmese, the Zimbabweans, the Uzbeks, the Mexicans and all those people that Bush is going to set free next. So your turn will surely come. Link to post Share on other sites
mfurmane 0 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Very elegantly put. "How wrong can a person be before they get tired of it?" I was wondering the same thing... Link to post Share on other sites
green 0 Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 New "intelligence" says AlQ have a nuclear bomb. http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13332271,00.html So perhaps we should bomb somebody? Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 That Sky article is typical of the garbled rubbish put out by 'respectable' media. It's not surprising poor ignorant people who aren't capable of looking a little further get confused into thinking that Bush is not in fact a bigger threat than AlQ. (That's obviously no reflection on you green for linking to it. And you're right, we do need to have our liberty protected by bombing somebody - that's reality after all.) Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 agreed O11. Seems most people take "respectable media" as face value and trust it like they do the bible. People should read more, on both sides of the spectrum, and then form their opinion; not just verbally reiterate the rediculous propaganda thats out there. Link to post Share on other sites
sakebomb 0 Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Exactly!! The media is only telling us what 'they' want us to here. How often is the truth distorted? Link to post Share on other sites
Yuki's Passion 1 Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Quote: Originally posted by sakebomb: Exactly!! The media is only telling us what 'they' want us to here. How often is the truth distorted? I trust "the news" as much as I trust Bush, Koizumi, Blair, and Bin Laden. Link to post Share on other sites
dave rave 0 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 I think both of you are too extreme to be right. I'm no fan of george bush & have lived almost my whole adult life outside the us. the worst part of this whole mess is it's a real possability that in ten years this whole thing could look kindly on bush & history will remember him as some kind of brave soul with foresight instead of the bumbling greedy extremist that he is. also you have to remember bush is basically a stooge in this tragedy I'm more afraid of some of the people around him.i.e. cheney,rumsfeld Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 I note that the wise and honest CONGRESS has just OK'd a suicidal energy bill. If climate change is a global threat, there's one country in particular that is doing its damnedest to help it along. Link to post Share on other sites
mfurmane 0 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 >I note that the wise and honest CONGRESS has just OK'd a suicidal energy bill. Wrong again. The HOUSE OK'd the energy bill. The Senate still has to vote. If history has anything to say about it...it will probably get struck down like the three before it. Word selection is very important. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocean11 0 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 I stand corrected then. The House OK'd a suicidal energy bill. Nice work. Link to post Share on other sites
damian 0 Posted May 15, 2005 Share Posted May 15, 2005 Quote: Originally posted by 34 guest(s): I just saw this clip . It did, in the most sincere meaning of the phrase, leave me literally speechless. I feel better now.... http://www.alldumb.com/media/content/2005/04/97.mov Link to post Share on other sites
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