Big Train Crash

[Davo 1]

Not appropriate and not very smart from a PR point of view wouldn't you say? To be honest I really don't care if they went bowling, or out drinking or whatever. What I do care about is the fact that there is something wrong with the culture and procedures of this organization which has resulted in the death and injury of so many. I think the point about it being wrong related to this is that no-one would dare to point out how inappropriate it was at the time. The question "Can sheep go bowling?" has been answered with an emphatic "Yes". Plenty of the participants knew full well what had happened.

 

Of course all JR employees shouldn't be held accountable. But by the same token I think it's incredibly naive and insensitive of them to have gone ahead with such activities on the same day. Everyone in Osaka was talking about the accident that day, did they think 40 JR staff going bowling wouln't cause a furore? To say that it happened in a different region is just stupidity-the train crashed about 7 minutes away from Osaka station!

 

Heads need not roll for the bowling gaffe, but it's plainly a good example of how heads are stuck firmly up a***s at JR West. The fact that 107 people are dead is but one issue-over 400 were injured as well. I'm sure my student ,who is in hospital with broken bones and internal injuries, wouldn't appreciate hearing about this shoganai reaction. Then again she's probably just trying to cope with the trauma of what's happened to her-no bowling for her just now.

 

To be sure I'm a little close to the issue at hand not to have emotional involvement. That doesn't alter the fact that the "Bowling for JR" incident is a godawful screwup. Turn up the heat I say, but don't lose sight of the real issues of safety vs competitive timetabling and rotten corporate culture.

[Ocean11 0]

Let's see how y'all react when one of the bowling party members can stand the opprobrium no longer and kills themselves to atone for their ghastly PR failure.

[rach 1]

I'm surprised at many of the responses here. (Well probably not actually coming to think of it). As Davo says, it just seems so very naive and insensitive of them to do what they did and not just from a PR point of view, even though they were not involved with the accident and of course not to blame for it in any way.

[Davo 1]

I'd think it was sad on one hand and bloody rediculous on the other Ocean11. People are just lashing out at JR West and these guys have set themselves up for the critcisim they're getting. Of course the energy and media attention should be focused on the real issues so I do see point of it being OTT. However people are understandably angry with JR West and anger isn't a rational thing. The media are shamelessly milking it for all it's worth for sure, but that anger has to go somewhere doesn't it. I'm not angry at the bowling party members but I do think they're quite stupid to have gone ahead with it. Not heartless but pretty stupid nonetheless.

[SKI 15]

You shouldn't be that surprised rach.

 

I agree with what you and davo are saying. Let's just hope they take the focus off all the unfortunate party/bowling/golf story and concentrate on the really important things and find out exactly what happened.

 

Alas, some people seem quite incapable of looking beyond themselves and also seem totally unable to accept the opinion of other people when it differs with their own.

[Ocean11 0]

Oh do stop your mealy-mouthed adjudication Yogurt.

 

> Alas, some people seem quite incapable of looking beyond themselves and also seem totally unable to accept the opinion of other people when it differs with their own.

 

That's yourself you're griping about there, right? It's the same sad story every time some discussion breaks out. Repeat the same trite, conventional opinion without any attempt at analysis or justification, then whine when somebody points out what vacuity it is.

 

 

> Let's just hope they take the focus off all the unfortunate party/bowling/golf story and concentrate on the really important things and find out exactly what happened.

 

My thoughts exactly Yogurt. Couldn't agree more. Although allowing oneself to get whipped into a frenzy by the media on this only means that the necessary switch of attention will happen more slowly, if it happens at all (And now we have a report from an office full of people who take part in office parties grudgingly themselves but never refuse to go, who are very, very angry about JR staff going bowling...)

 

rach darling, I admire your sensitivity to the feelings of others. It's clear that you're not grandstanding from a hypocritical standpoint as surely a great many of the 'angry crowd' are.

 

davo, you seem to be arguing for misdirected anger there. Is that a little luxury you regularly allow yourself?

 

And Yogurt, it's 'differs from'. As Orwell pointed out, the impoverishment of language leads inevitably to impoverishment of thought.

[Ocean11 0]

 

Tie that scarf a little tighter why doncha?

[SKI 15]

Yes, I forgot to add in my post. So here goes.

 

You of course need to write a very long grammatically correct essay (and don't even dare to post any spellling mistakes) in order for certain people to even begin considering your thoughts. And then they will no doubt be completely rejected if they are not the same.

 

You do make me laugh - do keep it up.

[rach 1]

Well.... ski has a point in his original post above and I actually agree with him.

 

(I must say you come across as being overly picky there ocey-babes.)

[---- 0]

I live about 2km from where all this happened, but more importantly a good friend of mine was quite seriously injured and lucky to be alive. They don't really care about the people who went to the parties (JR seems to have a lot of enkais and events going on for its emplyees on a weekday midday huh? whats with that) but rightly angry at JR in general.

 

It seems they are saying now the train was going at 126kmh. That must have been pretty scary for people used to the normal speed on that thing.

[Davo 1]

Not arguing for that at all Ocean11. I can understand why people are angry at the bowling though. I freely admit to not always being rational when angry, and yes I've misdirected anger in the past for sure. Can anyone say they've been spot on with the way they've directed their anger all of the time? I try not to get angry as much as I possibly can these days, it's better to be calm. I am angry with JR but it's not burning me up, actually I felt kind of sorry for the President as I watched him apologise to families on TV the other night.

 

So what can I do with this anger for an organisation? I can try not to use their trains in the future basically. The only positive thing I can think of doing is to send a card to my student in hospital. Apart from these actions I really don't know how to react. Being angry is a luxery I'd rather try and do without unless absolutely necessary. Point taken about the folly of misdirected anger Ocean 11-how have you fared with your direction of anger in the past?

[Ocean11 0]

Davo, if I feel anger about some situation, I actually try to assess why and what causes it, especially if I'm going to express it. I find it's best to put a little method in one's madness as it were.

 

Yogurt, in lamenting how firm my opinions appear to be (they're not really, you just can't read), you do make a very good case for holding several incompatible opinions at the same time. Very ecumenical of you. Surely a good company employee.

 

rach, Yogurt hasn't made any points. He expressed a vague opinion which he won't back up for fear of writing an essay.

 

Jeez, this forum can get boring with it's empty one line postings. db, badmigraine, miteyak, please post something soon!

[rach 1]

Ocean, I'm not going to get any more involved in this!! But, Ski did make a point, and I agree with it.

 

"some people seem quite incapable of looking beyond themselves and also seem totally unable to accept the opinion of other people when it differs with their own"

 

 

If you're bored, why don't you do something else? That seems the sensible thing to me....

[SKI 15]

I can't recall mentioning any specific names actually. Never mind, some people must just be paranoid.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

JR should pay 50million yen to each family who lost a loved one.

 

JR should pay 1.5 million for everybody injured plus medical bills.

 

JR people who went bowling should have a bowling ball shoved up their @ss.

 

The news media who are going off about the enkai and bowling need to have a typewriter shoved up their @ss.

 

I watched the company president yesterday kowtowing to the family members yesterday... Im so sorry blah blah blah. They should tie him up like a pinata and beat the $hit outta him.

[Ocean11 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by SKI:
I can't recall mentioning any specific names actually. Never mind, some people must just be paranoid.

It's called insinuation you little weasel, and you're at it again. Don't you feel any shame about being so embarrassingly transparent and infantile? You don't agree with somebody? Call them intolerant. You don't like it when they challenge you about it? Pretend you never said it.

Yamakashi, instead of beating the crap out of the President, how about having him stand on the platform in uniform announcing the failings of JR to incoming trains? Make the punishment fit the crime.

[SKI 15]

Well if you really think I was talking about you, by all means think that. Whatever. Ocean11, I think there are probably a fair few people who think you are the infantile one - just one who can use big "impressive" words and has enough time in a day to spend hours on forums writing essays.

 

Anyway, I'm retiring from this, I'm sure other people aren't interested at all. You will probably want to post another witty remark, go ahead...

[Ocean11 0]

> just one who can use big "impressive" words and has enough time in a day to spend hours on forums writing essays

 

Oh Jesus, Yogurt, just let all your inadequacies hang right out brother. Hang on, don't forget to take your ball when you go!

[Yuki's Passion 1]

O11,

 

as long as hes standing on the tracks, sure, sounds pretty good to me

[Yuki's Passion 1]

I take that back - he should be tied and dragged the distance that the train overran the platform while kowtowing and apologizing to everybody too. Maybe, NHK could reconstruct the accident scene and he could be one of the passengers in car number 1?

 

Everytime I hear him apoligizing all I see is something brown falling outta his mouth.

[nzlegend 1]

Angry passengers taking revenge on train drivers after fatal crash

 

The times had a great article about the associated "anger" felt by the public.

Seems some citizens have rather irrational and pent up anger to unleash. It is very disturbing to see and read about

 

"In the worst case a woman driver was left bleeding after being punched by a man shouting: “What's Japan Railways up to, when so many people can die in that accident?” On Friday another woman driver almost fell in front of a train when a man kicked her at Osaka station."

 

Anger is one thing but men punching and kicking innocent females? come on! these two cowardly pathetic cretins make me sick.

If they had balls and true conviction they would march into JR HQ and assault one of the JR executive...yeah right, I just hope there were some real men nearby who stepped in to help the female drivers.

[Ocean11 0]

Interesting article.

 

"Japanese codes of collective responsibility demand that even workers not directly associated with the accident behave sombrely in its aftermath." - but not only Japanese apparently. Lots of people of whatever nationality seem to agree that it's only right to behave sombrely because ... because ... it's only right to behave sombrely. Oh well, each to their own.

 

I hope that railworker unions get a boost out of this. It might make things a bit safer. Those brave knights of the angry media might do well to start investigating some of the other rail companies in Japan too. I'd be very surprised if all of JR West's competitors had plumped for 'punctuality by positive reinforcement' instead of Imperial Japanese Navy reeducation techniques...

[miteyak 0]

I'll wager that in the time period from the crash to the last person extracted, more people died in car crashes in Japan than in the train wreck, despite the volume of car traffic being miniscule compared to rail travel. Imagine the carnage if all trhose cra drivers could get away with speeding if they were late to an appointment... (oh, wait, they can).

 

Do highway officials still go to parties despite daily massacres on the highways, can the police sleep at night? What about the car companies who deliberately provide minimal safety equipment to save costs?

 

As transport goes, rail (JR included) is still the safest way to travel by far.

 

Yes, the accident was tragic, but it more reflects the absolute safety of the rail system generally than any inherent diregard for safety. Get angry about safety if you will, and tackle the issue with some systematic logic.

 

Let's start with the obvious... stop speeding, drink driving... (cars in general) etc. the real killers that all and sundry use without a care for their appalling safety record, and for which we hold no-one accountable.

[Yuki's Passion 1]

I think its the fact that the people have been hurt by the institution that has caused them anger and distrust. Up until now, what was JR's record? I dont have a clue but would wager that its one of the cleanest/best in the world with the least amount of accidents(deaths) and almost on-time to a T.

 

Japanese have had little to worry about in terms of train disasters compared with the rest of the world. The way trains come in, ON-TIME, every 3-5 minutes in places like Tokyo and Kansai to me is just amazing. The fact that nothing up until now has happened is quite remarkable in itself and the people have only lost a little trust for something that, has, up until now, been almost perfect.

 

I can sympathize with J-peeps who are angry. But going around beating the $hit outta people, especially men hitting women, is just appalling.

[Ocean11 0]

I'm very interested in this JR West thing from the point of view SRI. It features in a number of so-called SRI funds that fund supposedly best-practice companies. But while JR West have had very good business results, they haven't put available fail-safe equipment everywhere to prevent accidents. If I actively invested in something, I'd want to know that they had gone the extra distance to protect people, even if it meant a lower return. Especially if it's advertised as 'socially responsible'.

 

Good point there miteyak. Toyota is widely touted as a very benign company, although their big SUVs are a major hazard on roads, and they are actively resisting government environmental regulation in California. Does anybody go and kick Toyota employees?