Back country tours...how safe?

[Mantas 3]

As much as I'd love to do some avi courses and get clued up on snow pits ect. I don't think my 5-10 per year on the mountain justify the time and expense involved.

So every time I go back country I tend to fork out the bucks and pay for a professional guide.

 

My question is: How safe are these set ups do people still die under the care of 'professional' guides.

 

I'm not talking about mountaineering or extreme back country either.

[gerard 6]

Have you checked this out?

[Mantas 3]

Well there you go....Someone like myself would've happily paid these guys to take me back country, all the while thinking I was in safe hands!

 

So what you are saying is even though nobody was killled or seriously hurt, it could have been a lot worse?

I know next to zero about avi's so what was the biggest mistake these guys made?

[montoya 0]

where to start? if you were their client that day, they had planned to bring you down a red-flag slope with a gully terrain trap at the bottom. while you are waiting at the top, the 2nd guide causes an avie (and later says it's a slope-cut). the lead guide then cuts the slope over him 2x causing more debris to fall, then later says it was all according to plan.

next time you as their client get caught in a slide there, none of the locals will be that quick to help out since we have already been told beforehand they don't need our assistance.

 

I asked around, and there's a rumour that they've been banned from doing tours at Oguna-Hotaka for ducking ropes during a tour. Someone with more info, please confirm.

[Mantas 3]

mmmmmmm.... Some Avie training is sounding more and more attractive.

[sock_monkey 0]

do your homework. either learn about safety yourself (best) and at the very least check the certifications of whoever you go out with.

[Mantas 3]

What would you suggest as the minimum amout of awareness training? All I'm talking about is wandering off backcountry and finding some nice runs. Nothing extreme or heroic. Most likely in Oz. Where I'm guessing that the dangers aren't as high as here in Japan or other places.

[montoya 0]

Mantas at a minimum I'd go through some books, there are some popular titles listed in this thread:

http://www.snowjapanforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/5/114.html#000001

 

I usually reread Tremper's book before the start of the season. Good stuff.

[Mantas 3]

Thanks guys, I'll start reading up. I would like to do some courses/training though.

 

Are there any Aussies out there that know or recommend any courses run in NSW. Even any clubs that do it. My mates are all lazy arses so need someone to get going with(which I assume is manditory for back country)

 

One more question....starters kit...what's the basics I will need??

[samurai 0]

A shovel

a probe

a beacon

are the three standard pieces of equipment that you will hopefully never ever need. It may suck to spend over 400 bucks on something you must master yet pray to never use.

 

If you get a chance, after you take a course, hit up patrol (beg more than once) to follow them on a snow-safety day. looking at snow, then seeing a bomb thrown will give you a really good idea what snow likes to slide. And hands on experience is waaay more valuable than pictures, drawings and books. And getting hands on experience away from the BC is really hard to come by. I know it's a long shot, but I know people who have done it themselves.

 

Essentially, snow is a medium you've never imagined. And once you learn a thing or two, you will learn that you are actually more afraid with the wisdom. That sucks too. The more you learn, the more you realize how little you know.

 

The world-class avalanche scientists who cowboyed the Chugach got scared after 25 years of studying snow (one sold his heli-operation) after seeing avalanches that occured in conditions that defied the rules those same scientists had developed and published in the books you want to buy. That's how freaky snow is. The world's elite wanted out.

 

It took me maybe 7 years of BC and bomb throwing experience plus full avi certification to learn one thing- it all slides, dude. At some point or another, that snow will come off that mountain.

[Mantas 3]

That's freaky...I guess all you can do is arm yourself with as much info and equipment as possible and take your chances. It's not a lot different than anything else in life.

Surfing........you know there are sharks out there, they swim under you, around you, then every now and again one will have a chomp at someone.

[John Deere 0]

The two times I have paid a professional guide in Japan I have thought I got my moneys worth. Once was with Chuck Olbery out of Furano (Backcountry Powdertracks) and one was with Dave Enright from Evergreen in Hakuba. Both times I was impressed with their professionalism and advice. I do believe that bad guides exist, but ask around before you book and people will tell you!

[journey_man 0]

I did my Avi course with Chuck and recommend him and I know that FT rates the Evergreen guys.

 

Just to add my two cents, I think that even in a guided scenario you are safer if you know something about the terrain you are about to ride. Even the best guides can have an off day.