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rant --> Nozawa Onsen Ski School Instructor literally skied with my money...


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i went over to the SAJ-affiliated ski school at Nozawa Onsen's Hikage area, and booked for a 2-hour private instruction (i can handle the nihongo) for about US$95 (i have a US$30 discount)...

 

so, i waited for the instructor to show up around 2:30PM...

 

we meet up, and for the first five or ten minutes went up the beginner lifts, and i show him what ive got... he mentions some mistakes in form, etc. etc. and continues to say that we go up to the top (via the gondola).

 

with those slow gondola and lifts, im at the top by around 3:15PM.

 

having been through a couple of private instructions in the past - i was expecting the drill to be:

 

1. instructor gives pointers

2. instructor demonstrates by skiing down some meters (say at least four turns)

3. when instructor gives the signal, i follow down, keeping in mind what the instructor said

4. when i stop in front of the instructor, he evaluates my skiing and offers checks, tips, etc.

5. either we continue the same way until we get down, or drills are done

 

UNFORTUNATELY, what happened then was that he just told me to follow him from beind down the "long course" (ie., until we reach the bottom) while keeping in mind my fore/aft balance.... so, basically, there were only a couple of times that we did stop to check my skiing. not much tutorial! not much instruction! and before, that, its 4:30PM and tutoring is over... *sigh*

 

i booked for a private instructor to check how im doing - and he just used that time to ski?

 

so, what do you guys think? am i in my right mind to get pissed at this?

 

----

 

well, when i got back to tokyo a day later, i called up the school's "kocho-sensei" (ie., principal), and he was basically incredulous to what i was saying....

 

*bummer*

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WantToSki, I always worry about shelling out money on instructors etc. But for learning to ski, invite some good skiers with you and race them, learn to push yourself. Before my forum was off and a friend who really could ski just told me to change my posture a tiny fraction and the difference was unbelievable.

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I also have bad experience with one of their snowboard instructors.

My girlfriend, total beginner at the time hired a full day group lesson with them. She was complaining that she could not follow his instructions and although everyone else seemed to be doing well she kept on crashing bad. When I met her at the lunch brake and asked her to show me what she had learned, I got really pissed.

Apparently she was the only goofy rider in the group and the guy either didn’t notice or didn’t bother and since everyone else was regular was teaching her to turn switch!

I waited for him to come after lunch to continue the lesson and started “complaining”. My girlfriend said she almost felt sorry for him at the time...

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maybe the instructor was holding back b/c he thought you wouldn't understand japanese.

 

if u say u can understand it. did u make that understood?

 

but, still, u paid 1 man yen for that? i would have ripped their head off for a full refund. f#&$ that s&'$. fts, that's a rip off. i would've asked for the kocho-sensei's boss and ripped his head off too. sounds like horrible service.

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that is poor. when you talk to the ski school, which you should soon, ask the qualifications of the instructor you had. a highly qualified instructor should know better than that. you may have gotten a rookie, used to leading little kids down the mountain, on his first private.

or you may have just gotten a prick. nonetheless that is poor quality.

yup you should definitely complain to the ski school. demand a refund, or at the very least a complimentary lesson, and ask for the ski school director to take you out.

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WantToSki, try making an appointment with Fattwins or EskimoBaseCamp and head down to Hakuba. They are not only great skiers but they know how to teach their skills well. I always recommend them to my HK friends when I bring them down. Last time, because we had so many wanting lessons, we needed extra other coaches as well, but they were all fighting over who would get Fatts and EBC.

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To all you guys, thanks for replying... Even my Japanese colleagues agree that it is within my right to complain, unfortunately, for the Japanese - it becomes the "shouganai" attitude and they just keep their mouth shut... Hehehehe... Us *gaijins*

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by Fattwins:

keep complaining.

Yes, as I have noted, I talked to the Kocho-sensei, and he told me that he would check with the aforementioned instructor and get back to me. If that Kocho-sensei, a Katagiri Mikio, doesnt get back to me by tomorrow, Ill have to call them again.

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by muikabochi:

At a place like Nozawa where it's really big and takes a long time to get to the top, whats the policy on that time?

 

It must take 20+ minutes to get up there.....

 

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Actually, it being on a weekend, the crowd was really huge, and it took us at least 30 minutes to get to the top.

 

Unlike in NZ, for example; here in Japan there are no "priority lines" for instructors/students - the time just to line up to a lift eats away at your lessons... *bummer*

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by tsondaboy:

I also have bad experience with one of their snowboard instructors.

My girlfriend, total beginner at the time hired a full day group lesson with them. She was complaining that she could not follow his instructions and although everyone else seemed to be doing well she kept on crashing bad. When I met her at the lunch brake and asked her to show me what she had learned, I got really pissed.

Apparently she was the only goofy rider in the group and the guy either didn’t notice or didn’t bother and since everyone else was regular was teaching her to turn switch!

I waited for him to come after lunch to continue the lesson and started “complaining”. My girlfriend said she almost felt sorry for him at the time...

That was what my other friend told me - he would have gotten mad at that very spot and demanded his money back.

 

On the other hand, this is not unusual in "group lessons" here in Japan. There are just too many students to handle in 2 hours that the instructor cannot look out for each and every individual. It happened to me twice (once in Naeba, and once in Happo-One), and that is why I opted for private instruction while at Nozawa.

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by dizzy:

maybe the instructor was holding back b/c he thought you wouldn't understand japanese.

 

if u say u can understand it. did u make that understood?

I think Im quite sure that I made it clear that I did understand Japanese, and even ski-terminologies in Japanese, ie., "zenkei," "kokei," "naikei," "kaju," "batsu-ju," "yama-mawari," etc. etc.

 

Also, if he was holding back, why would we go all the way UP to the TOP (expert/advanced runs)? If there was any indication that some communication problem would arise, wouldnt it be better to handle things in the beginner runs?

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by dizzy:

but, still, u paid 1 man yen for that? i would have ripped their head off for a full refund. f#&$ that s&'$. fts, that's a rip off. i would've asked for the kocho-sensei's boss and ripped his head off too. sounds like horrible service.

Yes - my first experience on that...

 

And if that Kocho-sensei (his name is noted above) does NOT get back to me tomorrow, time to call them again...

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by sanjo:

Hmmm. Did you not bring this up with him

I did - yesterday... Im still waiting for his reply, he told me that he would be checking with my instructor at that time, a Ueno-Sensei (the only "Ueno" in the Nozawa Onsen Ski School).

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by daver:

that is poor. when you talk to the ski school, which you should soon, ask the qualifications of the instructor you had. a highly qualified instructor should know better than that. you may have gotten a rookie, used to leading little kids down the mountain, on his first private.

or you may have just gotten a prick. nonetheless that is poor quality.

yup you should definitely complain to the ski school. demand a refund, or at the very least a complimentary lesson, and ask for the ski school director to take you out.

Actually, I had this feeling our first run out...

 

Basically, when I booked for the lessons, it was already around 2:00PM, wherein most of the instructors are already out on the field (usual lessons begin at 1:00PM).... So, the problem may be is that HE was one of those left in the school with nothing else to do, and they just dumped him on me... *unfortunately*

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Markie:
WantToSki, try making an appointment with Fattwins or EskimoBaseCamp and head down to Hakuba. They are not only great skiers but they know how to teach their skills well. I always recommend them to my HK friends when I bring them down. Last time, because we had so many wanting lessons, we needed extra other coaches as well, but they were all fighting over who would get Fatts and EBC.
Yes - I think Ive read some post mentioning that Fattwins is a certified instructor (SIA-affiliated, if Im not mistaken).

Anyway, that wont be a problem - since I may be staying at Fattwins' place in Hakuba around next month...

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Hi WantToSki

 

Very sorry to hear about your experience and I hope that you get a satisfactory response from the ski school.

 

I just want to say that I know Mr Katagiri and know him to be a very decent chap. I'm sure he would be receptive to your story. \:\)

 

(This is not relevant to your complaint but just out of interest he is a two time former Olympian and has been the head coach for the Japanese National ski team - a very well known character in the Japanese ski scene).

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 Quote:
Originally posted by SnowJapan.Com#1:
Hi WantToSki

Very sorry to hear about your experience and I hope that you get a satisfactory response from the ski school.

I just want to say that I know Mr Katagiri and know him to be a very decent chap. I'm sure he would be receptive to your story. \:\)

(This is not relevant to your complaint but just out of interest he is a two time former Olympian and has been the head coach for the Japanese National ski team - a very well known character in the Japanese ski scene).
Thanks for the info...!!!

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If he is a decent individual as you said he is, then that would be great 'coz I wouldnt have to deal with a "hhhhmmm... sou-desuka? sou-desune? ...." (repeat several times)... Basically, not needing to worry that my complaint would fall on deaf ears.

Frankly, Im not in getting something out of it... Hey, if they give me a refund, or a free lesson next time I come up to Nozawa, that would be great.

At most, I would expect that they "admit that there was a problem in the aforementioned instructors way of teaching, and take steps not for it to happen again." Would this be so much to ask for?

Anyway, just to let them know that yesterday's wasnt a "prank call" - Ill call again to follow-up.
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Sure sounds like you got a raw deal there. It is very probably just that though - doesn't necessarily mean they are all bad apples over there. I had until now actually only heard good things about that place. Good luck!

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It sounds like you got a raw deal, I'm not sure if it is the same guy or not (maybe a relative) but there is an olympic skier from Nozawa by that name.

 

I agree that he should have tried harder to correct your skiing and give you more advice, I know it's easy for me to say in hindsight but why didn't you tell him to "stop", "look at me skiing", "what am I doing wrong", "please correct my mistakes more"?

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I took a lesson here in Cali (my japanese is NOT good enough to hang on the slope)...it was pretty much exactly as you described your expectations to be. I would have been majorly pissed if what happened to you had happened to me.

 

You should speak up - that just doesn't sound right...

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 Quote:
Originally posted by RockyV:
It sounds like you got a raw deal, I'm not sure if it is the same guy or not (maybe a relative) but there is an olympic skier from Nozawa by that name.

I agree that he should have tried harder to correct your skiing and give you more advice, I know it's easy for me to say in hindsight but why didn't you tell him to "stop", "look at me skiing", "what am I doing wrong", "please correct my mistakes more"?
I guess that Ive gotten the mostly Japanese (??) "not-to-be-too-outspoken" personality... Hehehehe...

Actually, that's a good question - I had some voice at the back of my head telling me to do so... However, when I did dig in for more details, what came back were, "you should treat skiing on ice barn like you peel fruits, nice and gentle... only on the skin... or, think of it like your girlfriend - handle it gently..." My mind suddenly went "duh!?! what...!?!" Probing further proved to be totally useless since he was using these analogies, though I can understand how they related to skiing - was for the moment, just TOO abstract.

 Quote:
Originally posted by SirJibAlot:
I took a lesson here in Cali (my japanese is NOT good enough to hang on the slope)...it was pretty much exactly as you described your expectations to be. I would have been majorly pissed if what happened to you had happened to me.

You should speak up - that just doesn't sound right...
Yes - if I only listened to that little voice in the back of my head then, and complained right away. I may have at least gotten a quick resolution.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Curt:
Did you contact them again then? I'm interested to hear how that goes.
I was too busy at work yesterday - Ill definitely call them today. Would keep SJ posted then.
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Update:

 

A while back I called up the Nozawa Onsen Ski School looking for the kocho-sensei, Katagiri-san; unfortunately I was told that he was away. I asked the secretary when he would come back, and told her that there was this issue that I was waiting a reply for...

 

Okay, so, she got my phone number - and told me that she'd get in touch with the kocho-sensei and have him call me back...

 

Some minutes later, I did get a call from kocho-sensei; and he told me that the specific instructor (a Ueno-san) wanted to show me more of Nozawa Onsen, the different trails, runs, difficult levels, etc. and approached the lesson from that viewpoint. Basically, since it was my first time in Nozawa and that Im was still searching for my "home gelande;" he felt it that it a chance to introduce the beauty of Nozawa.

 

....

 

So, the kocho-sensei is saying that it was a case of a simple misunderstanding?

 

Anyway, the kocho-sensei continues that the next time I do come to Nozawa (and he would want me to come again), that I should give them a call and that they'd do their best that I be satisfied ("manzoku")...

 

-- note: he didnt say anything whether Id get a free 2-hour private lesson the next time I drop by Nozawa...

 

Okay... Thoughts?

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The next time you go, and you will, you'll not put up with similar behaviour and will speak out. Therefore you will not go through the same thing again and you'd think the situation has improved.

 

The guy didn't offer you an apology, but stated the excuse of a scenic excursion. Not the most satisfactory outcome, but at least he had the courtesy to call you back.

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