TR - Happo South Faces

[samurai 0]

hang in there, EBC. There is no way to immaculately learn everything without any experience.

 

The most inspring person in my life is my father, and he never lectured me when i rolled my truck down a hill because I was drunk. Instead, he bought me two other trucks to combine the three into one. then he woke me up every morning at 6 to drink coffee and bash knuckles on greasy steel. I'll never drink and drive again. 10 years down the road and I'm still the only dude I've ever met who built his own rig. yet, not the only one who fouled up a drunken drive.

[eskimobasecamp 0]

yeh no worries thanks samurai.... it's all about experience, good and bad. you make mistakes and you learn. just some people on here think that they live their lives immaculately and talk down to others when they mess up. i know mistakes were made, i knew that at the time, as i skied down there..... i don't need to be told over and over again. there's no point in going over it anymore, why we skied it etc, it's done.... and we did live to ski another day. i learned so much that day. le spud emailed me and told me a story about what happened to him that same weekend, and the mistakes he made on an exit.... which he had to hike back up his line to get out of, with a partner who couldnt do it. anyway - lesson learned, what we should be concerned with now is AK's recovery and return to the snow.

[Kumapix 0]

looks like evergreen's having an avalanche course on march 3 & 4....

[eskimobasecamp 0]

looks like my school graduation ceremony is on march 3

 

the same happened with dates last year, but then dave organised a course for all staff --- i was meant to do that, then the night before he cancelled on us cause the schedule was all wrong.

[gerard 6]

Just read through the last few posts on page 4 of this thread. I'd say 'Valley of No Return" is a good name. Hope AK bounces back quickly. You guys are cool!

[Fattwins 0]

Note: this is not about one person, most of the people arent on the forum, a few are japanese

 

I keep hearing this year how things are

 

It was safe

we know the route

yeah we tested it by ski cutting

 

Comments reserved

 

side note

Considering that you are done at the school this year i would join the avie course EBC F them.

[eskimobasecamp 0]

well i know, that's how i feel... but it's too late now, i don't want to upset everyone now by backing out. i'm totally pissed off about it.

[samurai 0]

nenkyu... nenkyu... nenkyu... it works wonders for me. "Gomen ne. chotto..." they're usually too shy to even ask why. Perhaps you've already milked the nenkyus.

 

and fattwins, those comments you posted above are typical of those gaining experience. Those with experience know it's always dangerous. but they only got there by learning how much they actually don't know.

 

one either loses the cockiness pretty quickly, I reckon, or remains a rookie in the eyes of the modest... or dies. Even my avi instructors admitted how little they knew.

 

I remember it like it was yesterday-

Opening line to American Avalanche Institutes Level III for heli guides, Girdwood AK:

"Okay, this winter is proving that the books we published and had you buy for the course are lies. We shouldn't be here teaching you anything." (Dave Hamre; owner CPG) "The only thing I know is that if the avis don't kill you, the helis will. Average life expectancy for a guide in AK is 7 years. Quit or die." (Mark Newcomb; Exum/h20) "You guys still wanna do this? Buy my operation, I'm not hiring." Dave Hamre finished.

 

The girl from aspen with her poodle in her lap even let out a gasp. Next to me in the course was up-and-coming Points North owner- Kevin Quinn; "Why can't we just throw bombs? It's no more damage than bear-hunting."

 

Anyway, I love sharing what taught me AK is a place for vacations, not guiding. After that winter Coombs sold his operation and my non-paid internship to begin the following year with his lead guide,Newcomb, dissipated in the duration of a phone call. they all got freaked out after watching 100 year slide paths kill their friends. Interestingly enough, they were (and still are) the world's elite.

 

New name for AK's line; Modesty learned via spanking. although, he just fell, he didn't get caught in a slide, right? Perhaps he should name his abuser.

[eskimobasecamp 0]

no this is graduation day, it's a once a year affair, i HAVE to attend. it's too late for me to suddenly announce i can't go now.

[Legion 0]

I thought Chris Owens owned CPG?

[samurai 0]

perhaps now he does. this was 2001. the wicked year of avi deaths. Hamre mentioned wanting to sell it in the course. Quinny even got pissed because his helis hadn't arrived yet and hamre was looking to unload his crew (or his responsibility rather.)

[daver 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by eskimobasecamp:
you make mistakes and you learn. just some people on here think that they live their lives immaculately and talk down to others when they mess up. i know mistakes were made, i knew that at the time, as i skied down there..... i don't need to be told over and over again. there's no point in going over it anymore, why we skied it etc, it's done.... and we did live to ski another day. i learned so much that day.

first; there is a point to going over this more, so we can all figure out this issue is not funny. somebody nearly died. this isn't cool, and it shouldn't be glorified. a lot of people here need to learn that.

ebc, i think the criticism is directed the entire group, and not you alone. however being that you spend the most time from you group on the forums, you are naturally going to bear the brunt of the criticism.

perhaps you learned a lot from this trip, but what it is nobody can say. your trip report has offered little consideration on the incident from which we all can take advantage of through discussion, and any suggestions/criticism made by forum members have been met with hostility.
furthermore there is a air of nonchalance and humor to this whole episode; what with lots of nice photos to show how fun things were prior to the accident, felony type mugshots, and threads devoted to naming the line. is it any wonder people are still beating at what should be a dead horse? i know you are not responsible for these things, but as i have said earlier, you are the most frequent contributor to this forum ans as such will bear the brunt of the criticism.

having lost several friends in the backcountry i can assure you these types of threads are frustrating to view. rather than trying to defend yourself why don't you try to discuss this? people will likely be less caustic with you.

[Fattwins 0]

Daver and samurai we need to get a tour together one day

[dizzy 0]

yes, owens is now the co-owner of CPG.

 

a lot of businesses are selling, not just guides.

 

tsaina lodge, featured in First Descent is also looking to sell.

[eskimobasecamp 0]

they weren't intended as 'nice' photos, just photos of the day.... i told the story, and left the incident for AK to fill in. most of the people directing criticism my way are people i know and see in person on a frequent basis, therefore i'd rather discuss (as it has been anyway) face to face, not with some random people i don't know on the internet, especially not on SJ where there are a minority of people who actually know what they are talking about. i dont think i personally have created an air of humour to the incident... i didnt create the thread naming the line, nor did i post a mugshot... though these things were done by good friends of AK. i have stated over and over throughout this thread that i fully admit major mistakes were made that day, and they have been learned from. i didnt write in too much detail about the day, and just posted pictures, because a) that's what i use SJ for, to post pictures and i didn't want to tell the entire story in detail without asking AK if it was ok. it's been talked about in detail over and over and over by people in hakuba and the people involved. it was a mistake, and luckily no one did die. have you never made a mistake? i'm not being hostile, i've already said that big mistakes were made. i can't repeat every single conversation i've had with people about it on here. since you know so much and come on here with your condescending attitude over an incident you have limited knowledge about via the internet, why don't you make a relevant constructive contribution to the debate? what might upset you is that certain members of our group that day still wont admit major mistakes were made, I DID. but to be honest, like i said..... and for everyone reading this...... it was not ****ing cool seeing my friend covered in blood in the backcountry, traversing out wondering if he was going to live or die, having made some really bad decisions that day...... i'm sorry but i don't want to talk about it any longer on here. if you want to make a point to the less experienced, it's already been done.... i dont think it was even vaguely funny, and my attitude in real life is far from nonchalant over the matter........ so AGAIN for everyone else reading, it was a total blunder of a day out for so many reasons.

[dizzy 0]

ebc, maybe you could highlight the points u and AK had a long discussion about. if would consolidate what you've learned it could be useful for future reference for when you take an avi class. once you take the class or at least read some books, you'll pick up the vocabulary and the knowledge.

 

so far from what you and AK have said and from this thread, there's:

 

--people (not in your group) asking questions about off piste, not back country

--cell phone signal (?)

--southfacing slope on a warm day

--late start

--strong temperature gradients every 10 cms in the snowpack

--not being sure of the exit

--(lack of) plans B, C, and D

--one person had a first aid kit

--people had medical experience/knowledge

--people had beacons, probes, shovels

[dizzy 0]

oooooooooooooooooook, maybe making a list is not such a good idea.

 

while i was typing the last post, u had replied.

the internet is a funny place

[eskimobasecamp 0]

dizzzzy, have e-mailed you --- let's talk on the weekend.

[Kumapix 0]

i'm not sure if this has been pointed out (and I'm not going to read through the 5 pages again to check) but AK's accident didn't really have anything to do with the bad decision-making of the route. He fell into a hole which could have happened anywhere ob.

[eskimobasecamp 0]

yes unfortunately sometimes accidents happen and people fall into holes etc. but actually we skied on top of a river, south facing in the sun, with little snow coverage --- it was like june backcountry skiing, but anyway, we should have never been in that gully. so yes and no kuma. he could have fallen into a hole on a safer exit too.

[gerard 6]

 Quote:

You guys are cool!

Just want to clarrify that that comment was written after I thought the conversation was over, the damage was done and the lesson was learned. I.E... the comment was AFTER EBCs post:

 Quote:

yeh no worries thanks samurai.... it's all about experience, good and bad. you make mistakes and you learn. just some people on here think that they live their lives immaculately and talk down to others when they mess up. i know mistakes were made, i knew that at the time, as i skied down there..... i don't need to be told over and over again. there's no point in going over it anymore, why we skied it etc, it's done.... and we did live to ski another day. i learned so much that day. le spud emailed me and told me a story about what happened to him that same weekend, and the mistakes he made on an exit.... which he had to hike back up his line to get out of, with a partner who couldnt do it. anyway - lesson learned, what we should be concerned with now is AK's recovery and return to the snow.

I was thought it was cool that some of the Hakuba crowd screwed up, learned from it, and then reported their stupidity on the net, not taking themselves too seriously. BUT I also didn't appreciate the seriousness of the situation or the potential for a much worse outcome... or the effect that it might have had on those who were actually there..

[daver 0]

ebc,

just to be sure, i didn't "come on here with my condescending attitude over an incident you (I) have limited knowledge about via the internet".

i simply offered opinion on the venom that this thread is becoming. as for the limited knowledge, that is the whole idea of a TRIP REPORT. share your information. then we can all benefit. i have intentionally left my opinion out of the issue as i have not the info to discuss your mistakes. and if you must know, yes i have made mistakes. and as i have said, have lost close friends out there. have you? when you do you do come talk to me.

aside from that, i do believe your defense to my post completely overlooks the point. you are not at fault and i wasn't accusing you of being so, but for the love of god, drop the tude!