Pistes feel the heat of climate change

[BagOfCrisps 24]

More worrying forecasts:

 

Some of Europe's best-known ski resorts could be ruined by global warming, a report by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, warned today.

 

In what is claimed to be the first study of its kind, the study estimated that a 2C increase in temperatures by 2050 would reduce by 40% the number of slopes with enough snow to ski.

 

If temperatures rise by 4C, resorts where you can ski for more than 100 days of the year would decrease from 600 to just 200.

 

More here (Guardian)...

[r45 4]

 Quote:

"Climate change is going to have a significant impact on the industry. A lot of smaller operations are already closing, and the use of snow-making machines is rising exponentially."

He warned that snow-making machines will not be cost effective as the temperatures rise.

Oh dear. That can't be good for anything.
Nice photo they have on that page

[coldcat 0]

Almost everyday there has to be a piece of news about global warming in the press... It's turning into a religion.

[Oyuki kigan 0]

No, its turning into a reality.

[keba 0]

What happened to all the predictions that if global warming took hold, that the Gulf Stream would stop, and plunge Europe into a perpetual winter wonderland?

 

North America seems to be OK, so far...

 

Let's hope Japan can hold out as long as my knees can.

[coldcat 0]

Reality?

Ahh... we've argued/discussed about this before. I'll save myself the trouble this time

 

For anyone interested you can check the "global warming interesting stuff" thread.

[NoFakie 45]

 Quote:

Originally posted by keba:
What happened to all the predictions that if global warming took hold, that the Gulf Stream would stop, and plunge Europe into a perpetual winter wonderland?

You're right to say that scientists have got it wrong before. They have in many fields. Those particular predictions strike me as coming from the dawn of climatology when people were ignorant of many things, global dimming due to particulates among them. There is far more interest in the discipline now.

Noone denies that we are in a warming trend, so the question is the extent to which it is caused by human activity. A fortune has been invested in infrastructure based on the climate as people thought it was. That is where the ski industry is at risk.

In the short term, I'm more concerned about peak oil than global warming, but I may be wrong.

[Oyuki kigan 0]

Like whats been said a million times, the fact that it is getting warmer in not up for debate.

 

I have seem my riding season shrink almost a full month since i started skiing. I have seen less snowfall. I have seen extreme flip-flopping of consecutive winters, when once it was quite stable. I have seen resorts like Fernie, once huge powder locations, get more and more rain.

 

What is up for debate is how much of it is human-caused. But you know what, i am not gonna play dice and take the chance that it isn`t, especially where there are a million other reasons not to live like the world`s natural resources are your own personal property.

[Rag-Doll 0]

>You're right to say that scientists have got it wrong before. They have in many fields. Those particular predictions strike me as coming from the dawn of climatology when people were ignorant of many things, global dimming due to particulates among them. There is far more interest in the discipline now.

 

Not really Mr. W - The gulf stream problem or rather the impact on the gulf stream is still very much a part of the global warming concern. It is all still based on models and some models do show that the melting of the artic and greenland ice cap changes the salinity of the north atlantic which in turn interupts the gulf stream. I think it doesn't get a lot of airplay because it is too confusing for joe sixpack to understand that global warming might actually result in freezing weather for some parts of the world.

[coldcat 0]

Oyuki, I totally understand what you say.

 

It gets to my nerves when I see rain in places like Niseko and Furano. But then, the weather is like this, some years are more snowy than others, some years get more rain and less snow, and the other way. I bet that if you have a grandfather or grandmother who used to ski when they were young, they will tell you that each year was different. On top of it there are also cycles, some decades are warmer/colder than others.

 

I agree that it's good to cut emissions and care for the environment, but I just don't like how the press is dealing with this topic. They are very one sided.

 

I recommend this video, although I don't personally like the way it's done, I do like Patrick Moore interventions who is the founder of Green Peace.

Google Video

[keba 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by Rag-Doll:

too confusing for joe sixpack to understand

Wasn't it the basic premise of the film "The Day After Tomorrow"? Hollywood is about as mainstream "Joe Sixpack" as it gets...

[Rag-Doll 0]

It was and I've read someplace that the only realistic thing about that film was the bit where the scientists told the politicians about what was happening and the politicians said that there is nothing they can do.

[keba 0]

Think it's too early, though, to change this site to "SnowEurope.com", and all move to Austria?

As an investment in (or gamble on) the future. Think of it... real estate prices in the French Alps plummeting, resorts being sold off for a song, we jump in and buy it all up, then ZANG!! We find ourselves knee-deep in an eternal winter, holding all the cards...

 

Who's with me?

[NoFakie 45]

You're right RagDoll, I didn't read the first post properly and mistakenly assumed it was about the New Ice Age predictions from the 1970s that people drag up to diss the science of global warming.

 

My basic position is Oyuki's. There's only one planet, so don't gamble with it. Especially not for wasteful practices and short term economic gain.

[mattlucas 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by coldcat:
I bet that if you have a grandfather or grandmother who used to ski when they were young, they will tell you that each year was different. On top of it there are also cycles, some decades are warmer/colder than others.

Yah
It was either really cold or cold
And it either snowed so much that they had to go into the house through the 2nd floor window or dig out the door

Now it's either cool or warm
And you get so much snow as to go in through the 2nd floor window or none at all

[coldcat 0]

From what I've read they are registering record low temps in the US and Canada this season. And the snow-fall is being amazing too.

[coldcat 0]

And last winter in Australia and New Zealand, the same story.

[coldcat 0]

This year is a El Nino year. While it shouldn't affect much Japan from what I know (and I hope), it does affect Europe very much, and that's the reason why temperatures are being warmer than usual this autumn. By the way, El Nino is a natural phenomenon, not man-induced.

[keba 0]

I didn't think El Nino affected Europe. I thought it was a Pacific Ocean-restricted phenomenon. Rain/snow in Chile, drought in Oz, and vice versa. That's why we had shuch a sh***y season here this year...

[thursday 1]

Found this:

 

Does El Niño have any significant effect on the Gulf Stream? Is there a link between them such as to have caused the recent above average temperature in Britain?

 

As far as we know the El Niño does not directly affect the Gulf Stream, position or intensity. The reason why Britain is having a mild winter is because the Jet Stream's position is averaging higher up in latitude than normal. This has allowed milder air to move further north over the British Isles. So, the possible connection between El Niño and warmer temperatures in Britain is the Jet Stream position over Europe.

[coldcat 0]

El Nino years are years in which Atlantic low pressures are very active, and this is always preceded by winds from the south in Europe.

[eskimobasecamp 0]

hahahahahahahahahaha... i love you man

[BagOfCrisps 24]

Who cares? I could think of quite a lot of people.

 

I snowboard because I enjoy it.

 

Flaine. Been there, not very good.

[Davo 1]

I totally agree with the two lifts idea spud, but god you know how to rant the ears off of a donkey!

 

Yes, yes-I know my kids are little marketing targets and all that. It's all fine and well for me to indoctrinate them (as I intend to) not to eat McD's and become part of the machine. Problem is, I'll have to work out how to do that the right way or they'll just turn round, tell me I'm a **** and do exactly what I don't want them to do.

 

Resorts are OK by me. I don't have time to hike up from the base every time I go out and I suspect no-one else here does either.

[damian 0]

Protecting your kids must be quite difficult.

 

Not having the time: that’s half the problem. I speak for myself firstly - always wanting to indulge in luxuries that I don’t otherwise have time for. So I fly rather than drive, I use lifts rather than hike etc. Makes perfect sense to do so, but does it make sense to do things for which we do not have the time? Perhaps we should limit our activities according to our resources, time being one of them, rather than adapting destructive technology to manage the time shortage. I don’t expect anyone to start soon, myself included. But its a fair observation.

 

Davo, I also think some resorts are ok. But over population of resorts and lazy demand for easy-access terrain in a setting of global warming is leading to increasingly destructive strategies to keep the money flowing. As the snow dissipates, so too does the resort's 'right' to stay in business.

 

BoC: no need to be defensive, I was ranting the topic, not the guy that posted it. But the people who care about resorts shutting should perhaps learn how to interact with nature in a different way. Sliding on (very steep) snow is fun… and I am totally prepared to walk for it. Lucky for some of us that walking is more than half the enjoyment. I’ll continue to use and pay for one lift ride each day I go touring. It’s the best way to gain altitude to a point from which we might walk for up to four hours. Being my girlfriend and going on a ‘ski holiday’ wouldn’t be much fun for most females.

 

Flaine being not very good: interesting comment. The plateau on which Flaine is situated is a very obvious and striking geological feature; it’s an oddity in the Alps. It really stands out on a topo map and obviously more so when one is physically in the area. It is also home to some very unique limestone caves. “I’ve been to Flaine and it’s not very good” is part of the problem: no one has a clue or a care about what the snow lies on, so long as there is some snow and lifts to drag you up it. The terrain at Flaine (for skiing) is quite gentle and dull, I agree, and that is the more reason not to destroy it in summer so that their 50cm of global warming snow pack is enough to make money from in winter.

 

EBC: thank your for your love and laughter.