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Late last spring (maybe June) we drove past Iwatake in Hakuba on our way to ski something big and there were piles of snow like that that were covered up in the big snowfalls of early December. There wasn't any real snow that low in the valley. They never got around to flattening them out. I wonder what is in the snow that makes it last so long... thumbsdown.gif

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Wanting to go to Naeba again is like wanting to meet an ex-girlfriend you would have been better off not having met in the first place.

 

The north face of the mountain is much better - go to Kagura instead.

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Tell much difference?

 

Don't know myself but when it's just a few hundred metres 10 metres wide, it doesn't sound that appealing to me. Like others, I will wait for the real stuff.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by excited:
Whats it like boarding on that man-made snow? Tell much difference?
It is appalling rock hard high density stuff. Wrist breaker for snowboarders.

Lots of snow making in Europe, resorts list it as a feature in their marketing. I see it as the single biggest reason to avoid a resort.
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I have skied a lot on man-made snow

I don't find it that bad in North America where many of the ski outs are on man made stuff. These places used a more traditional method of making snow though

 

I went out twice to places in the Takasu area with man made in November and it was fun to get out skiing. But the snow they make isn't very good. They can make it at high temps and it is really just crushed up ice

Good to get your legs and everything organized before it all starts up for real

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Man-made snow can be made as soft/light as natural snow but its not economical to do so. Its a balance between quality and quantity. When you make it you want to make as much snow per hour as possible by making heavier/wetter snow. It could be made lighter but you would probably end up with about 30% of the volume of snow than if you made it wetter. It costs the same per hour to make and you can groom the man-made snow in with natural snow so you wouldnt really know the difference. Somtimes really wet snow is made around the areas where you get on and off the lift on purpose to make the area more durable. Most snowboarders hate it but it makes a good base and the ojisan in the lift shack wont have to get off his ass as much to smooth out the ramp.

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Hey Krusty, interesting post. I suppose I have been talking about old man-made snow, not the fresh stuff.

 

Does low density man-made pack down the same as natural low-density snow?

 

For some reason I have a bias that no matter what the original man-made crystals where like, they all settle and compact after a few weeks into the same kind of frozen white plastic. It feels different to ice, harder to edge on.

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I havent really studied snow as much as I should of considering my life use to revolve around the stuff. I dont think man made will last any longer or pack down any differently than natural snow if the original crystals of both are simalar regardless of wether any additive(eg snomax) in the man made snow has been used or not. I think grooming has a lot to do with snow pack as the tiller(the rotor on the back of the groomer which spins) smashes the snow and although it helps with ice it can be over used and destroys snow crystals. When driving the groomer you can adjust the depth of the snow being tilled and also the speed and direction of the tiller. You can also apply force or have the tiller floating. All of these things contribute to the snow pack on a resort as does temperature of the snow when groomed and how deep you cut into the snowpack with the blade on the front of the groomer. I think regardless of the snow being natural or man made its going to end up the same if in the same conditions.

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I’d ask you another question, but answering it might break your rate of 4 posts per year ;\) .

 

Ah, what the hell. Are there different snow making techniques? Toque alluded to this above. From what I read, the French resorts use a method that makes slow-melting snow (thus damaging the underlying ecology as it hasn’t melted until late spring).

 

Did you drive a Bully?

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Ive only worked with the two most common types of snow making, air/water and fan/water systems and I havent worked in the Industry for a couple of seasons now so Im not up with the lastest technology. There always concern from various enviromental groups about snowmaking and possible damage it could do in spring regarding the thousands of litres of added water created when the snow melted and possible adverse affects it could have on streams, rivers etc. I havent heard any thing about slow-melting snow.

I have snowboarded at Karuizawa on a really short slope in November some years back which was pretty much just crushed ice which they sprayed on to the slope out of a long hose. I guess its a way of making snow in warmer temperatures and to possibly get the base started but it was crap to ride on.

Ive drove a Pisten Bully ocasionally but mainly drove a Bombardier and a Ohara(Japanese Groomer). Snowmaking was a pretty good job and I wouldnt mind doing it again in the future. It was pretty unreal with amazing sunrises, great enviroment to work in and finishing work as the lifts open to get the best runs.

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hy guys, for the snowmaking u need three things;

 

- water

- cold temperatures

- electricity

 

and of course a snowgun \:\)

 

For snowmaking usually u need temperatures below the zero, but it also depending from the humidity. If the humidity is enough low (example 20 % or so), then u are able to make snow at higher (near freazing) temperatures; +2, +3 C.

If you have mild temperatures as well as high humidity, then you need some extras to make man-made snow, like chemicals or/and radioactive bacterias. Of course for the nature is not so good, and can be dangerous. In some part of the European Alps it isn't allowed, like in Germany or in Austria.

 

The normal man-made snow holds out much more longer, than the natural snow.

Why? In the man-made snow are the snowcrystals other (have an oher form, structure), than the snowcrystals in the natural snow.

 

BTW, except Naeba is theren in Japan any skiresort with snowmaking-system?

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Stanii:
hy guys, for the snowmaking u need three things;

- water
- cold temperatures
- electricity

and of course a snowgun \:\)

Excuse me, that's 4 things!
I decided to give Fattwins a one week break so I thought I'd pick on someone else for a change!

Actually, Karuizawa is also quite big into snow-making. But I've seen those snow-cannons in many places in Japan including Hakuba.
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