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haha quite the essay FT, and not too many mistakes..... whatever, i'm just writing THAT word as much as possible, not because i'm serious and think that i got steeeeeze - just because i know you HATE it!

 

as for your essay of insults where we went from talking about some pants to suddenly talking about who can do what on skis - how long have you been skiing park anyway? i went there about 4 times this year so no i'm not the pipemaster, but i think we've been over this in another thread!!!!!! and there wasn't any little side off that avie gate - you weren't there, you've never skied off the south faces of happo - if anyone else actually cares about this big brother styleeeeee brawl - the avie gates are the huge metal things at least 2 or 3 times the size of normal avie gates anywhere else on that mountain.

 

blaaa whatever, you ski better than me, i'm not saying you don't ---- but you don't really have that much steeeeeze in those tight mountain hardwear pants dude..... especially not when they are on back to front lol

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no. I actually got to check out the 3l jacket yesterday (the 07 gear has come in) but they didn't look very good at all thumbsdown.gif

I really like the pants spud suggested (arcteryx theta sk), but then again I think I need to slow down and think about what I really need versus buying the best & most expensive.

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do you have a jacket/pants you can still use next season for something like on resort? or do you need new everything? and what will you MOSTLY be doing? but yeh i guess you def don't want to go bc with baggy park pants eh. sorry the 3L jacket you are talking about is arcteryx?

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ok what about checking out the haglofs stuff - try it on ----- for example the haglofs LIM ultimate jacket in black is paclite gore-tex, looks pretty cool if you ask me ---- then get some baggy on piste boarder pants (which you've already got right?) i think weight is the most important thing, and i can certainly vouch for the quality of gore-tex/materials on the haglofs stuff, best thing i've every owned and totally different from anything else i've ever worn - you can layer underneath and have the benefits of super light jacket which will work for mid-winter and spring in that sense - but believe me you won't feel the cold/wind/snow in these jackets. OR the one that FT has - the haglofs fusion jacket. they are just so light!!!!! and the material is amazing!!! then buy some mountaineering style pants too - and it will all match up --- do ya reckon? or do you really want a more baggy boarder style jacket? i don't think you'll appreciate that when hiking. get a black lightweight haglofs which will ultimately be good and look good on resort and in the bc.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Kumapix:
bib pants are where it's at thumbsup.gif
Big time. It makes them amazingly functional when skiing and hiking off piste. Normnal pants come untucked and that is not comfortable at all in snow or bad weather. It also means less layers. Snow almost never gets inside, you stay totally.

Damn this, I didn't want to write an easy. Damnit.

My experience with Arcteryx jackets has not been great. I don't like their neck design, it is uncomfortable in bad weather. If you are buying an expensive 3l xcr jacket then you are buying for bad weather, ne? In bad weather you usually zip the neck up nice and snug. I have the Arcteryx sidewinder jacket and zipping up the neck in bad weather was very uncomfortable.

It is not the lightest nor best quality construction and it has design features which are a little frustrating. Buuut, in the stakes of bad weather 3l xcr mountain jackets, the best I have tried so far has been the one I luckily own: Berghaus Trango.

Good features:
- not the most expensive
- longer slightly 'tapered' waist is neat and snug under climbing harnesses or back pack waist belts and doesn't rise up whenhyou reach above your head.
- when wearing no pack or other gear, the tapered waist is snug and comfy, keeping wind out to a fair degree
- if the weather is really bad, there is a removable powder skirt
- the wrist closures use nice wide velcro tape which gives a more comfy and weather proof closure than the narrow velcro tape used in more lightweight jackets.
- the neck is very high. You zip all the way up and then stand bolt upright and the neck is still closed up to your nose. Very nice in a storm
- the hood is big and integrates well with the very high neck. When deployed, the hood really protects you from a storm. It is very good.
- the hood also stows away in the cleverest manner I have seen. It is hard to describe: folds down and has press stud buttons to close it so that you dont even know it is there. Unlike some jackets, when the hood is stowed it does not cause the whole neck/collar to become bulky and stiff. The neck-hood-stowing combo of this jacket is fantastic.
- it has very tough xcr patches in the high wear areas.
- if you can handle yellow, it is pretty cheap right now
http://www.gear-zone.co.uk/eshop/Berghaus-Trango-XCR-Jacket---Special-Deal.html

downside:
- a bit heavy. 770gms. You wont graduate from the school of absolute minimalism.
- the bad weather storm flaps that cover the pocket zips and pit zips also have velcro to keep them totally closed. This seals out the weather but makes opening a bit of a hassle.
- The zip teeth are those mid-chunky plastic type which look crappy to me. They run smooth and have caused no problems so far. I think I was just used to the very minimalist Arcteryx zip style.
- they have the shittiest website imaginable (at least I have constant page loading and language problems with it)

EBC -
If I hear you say "get baggy boarder style pants for resort days" again I think I will have to change my opinion of you ;-)

Fattwins-
mate, how much do you layer your legs to make your pants look tight? Don't you just wear base layer leggings? (mine come from uniqlo)
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.... and yes yes see your point about snow getting in OR not as the case may be with bib pants..... but i tell you, they are not the best with the ladies when you need to go to the bathroom. and what about spring hiking, when it heats up a bit? what if you don't want that extra layer up there?

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They do get a bit warm in spring. But spring riding (in deep rotten corn) is when wet and heavy snow gets in your clothes even more so than winter.

 

During spring hikes I am in a tshirt and almost always tour with the shoulder straps down at my waist and the 'bib' part folded down. So I end up looking like a baggy homey/punk with suspender straps dangling near my bum. They have a built in waist best and so you can sear them like normal pants in this manner.

 

When I get ready to ride I just pull the straps back up over my shoulders and put on a paclight. You could ride all day with the straps down, but they would get damaged if you had many arse crashes.

 

If you dont want such a high back then go for the "LT" model rather than the "SK"

 

I imagine that they would be a hassle for ladies at toilet time.

 

Edit to answer kuma's Q:

 

Do you mind if I copy/paste from another essay of mine? I can only comment on the sidewinder, but have seen the same neck zip 'stiffener' on other models. When zipped up, the neck construction really gouges out the under side of the chin and around the sensitive area where your mum feels for your glands when you want a day off school. If it doesn't jab and gouge, it feels like it is cutting skin on really cold days. My expensive Arcteryx jacket now sits unused in a cupboard for that reason (it is my back up jacket)

 

 Quote:
- The neck collar has to be comfortable when fully zipped up. Some have stiff 'comforters' the rigid upper edge of which turns into a mini knife edge once half frozen with a mixture of water, spit and snot. If the neck collar is not high enough (see above) then the stiff cuff is very uncomfortable on the underside of your chin.
http://www.snowjapanforums.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/6463.html#000000
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toque/dan, could you just use an extra strap, or even a clip to prop your snowpants up? i don't know tho, so that's Y i ask...

 

kuma, if you're gonna invest why not invest in the best and 5 4 the three-layer jacket?

 

if u're gonna 5 to places where you'll need it, why not just get the hardcore gear?

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took me a while to figure out what your 5's and 4's meant Dizzy! lol.gif

 

Well, there's the tendency to want the best even when you don't need it. ie BC without 3l goretex xcr is unthinkable. I read an article in a bc mag at FT's lodge questioning if we really need goretex xcr 3 layer jackets when softshells might be better. ie how many times are you hiking in rain? I am not an overnight bc'er and I definitely wouldn't go up in questionable weather, so do I really need the ultimate in waterproofing? Obviously if I get caught in a storm and it is raining then it's better to have the 'super' shell but for me those situations are limited.

So for me, 3l goretex would be nice but is not 'essential'. There's pricing to consider too, and most important, finding a jacket that fits well with the features that I need. but anyways, I will be waiting to see the new lines from Patagonia and Arc'teryx before deciding. I may even decide to not get anything this year and use my old 3l!

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 Quote:
Originally posted by eskimobasecamp:
bib pants..... but i tell you, they are not the best with the ladies when you need to go to the bathroom.
Almost all good bib pants will have a zipper set up to deal with this
Whether it's a through the crotch or a drop seat. I really like my through the crotch zipper. Even in the quickest #2 emergency I can cleanly evacuate the premises.
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Kumapix:
you can do a #2 through your front zipper?
Starts in the front and goes through the crotch to the back
Unzip, Spread the pants and underwear which also has through the crotch zip, squat and let loose
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