Jump to content

Recommended Posts

With the other discussion going on about the messy Japanese ski villages, I was wondering how the ones in Europe and the like managed to be so pretty?

 

Are there really strict planning laws and the like? And I wonder why they don't exist in Japan. Shame.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think less concrete and more natural wood would go a long way to give japanese villages a nicer look. When I say wood, I mean the real stuff, not the fake stuff that looks like vynil. Then lessening the amount of cable and wires and ugly transformers would help. These are the main differences between european and japanese villages. I think planning laws are probably fairly strict both in Japan & europe. I think moutain areas in europe also have more pine trees than leafy trees, it give the areas more of a feel of a mountain spot, it is more scenic as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet LE SPUD will have something to say on this. I was recently in CHAMONIX and found it to be relatively pretty but it is nothing on Swiss ski villages, supposedly. I havent been to Nozawa Onsen either but supposedly that is very pretty. Is on my TO DO list for this winter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I may have a bit to say, but it may also be guff....

 

Ignoring a few purpose built Swiss resort villages, most are (or were) farming villages. I believe the same is mostly true for Japan. So they start on the same level playing field but one comes out well in front from a the pretty village perspective. Some things that may influence the result:

 

- Japanese farms are typically rice farms. It is very hard to live on your rice field as it is under water when not under snow. So human dwellings and shops are all crowded together to maximise crop land. In the Swiss case, most farming is sheep or cows. You can build your house anywhere and it doesn't change the productivity of your cow crop too much. Also, a lot of pretty structures in Switzerland are summer farming infrastructure that sits well above the winter snow line for the purpose of summer flock management or in many cases, milk boiling and cheese making. When summer comes, and as we cruise around ski resorts in winter, we se these structures and think they look pretty. Rice farming perhaps does not require the construction of higher altitude tough farming structures.

 

- Swiss farmers used to live with their animals in winter. Sometimes in the same room and sometime the animals were on the ground floor whilst the people lived on the first floor. You could speculate that this resulted in the dwelling being quite robust. Japanese farmers do not need to live with their rice in winter. Old Swiss farm buildings are made of a lattice work of heavy duty wooden beams. Depending on the region, they also often have very solid stone roof tope. I am talking flat and round stone tiles that are 1 inch thick at least and 30 inches in diameter. They are not fabricated, rather they are taken directly from the rocky ground.

 

- Cement. My girlfriend and I both noticed the same amazing thing at the same time when wondering why Swiss villages look so unique. In Switzerland there is green grass or there is a structure. Nothing else in between. Except for major roads, if you step 1 inch off the road, you will be standing on lush green grass. If you open the window of your house and spit it will land on grass. It is as though man made structures where built elsewhere and just plonked down on the grass by a giant crane. The roads look like they were painted onto the grass. In a suburban sprawl like Australia each house as an ugly fence around it, a crumby garden and a footpath of cement next to he road. You don't see this in Swiss towns. Back to the point, Japan is very different in this respect as well. Many Japanese villages seem to be built on a blanket of scorched earth and cement.

 

- Pride or an eye for beauty: Swiss people seem to be proud of their home environment such that it is built to be pretty, using quality products that last. Japanese living environments seem to be built without an ounce of pride. That is why you see patchwork building made with very rusted iron sheeting in the middle of 'ancient' Nara. This is not necessarily a negative attribute, but I really don't think Japanese communities give a shit about the aesthetic appeal of their built living environment. Other more intangible appear more important to the community, which is perhaps justified. I also think that the average Japanese person has zero sense of style: they are consistently and predictable attracted to some very ugly things. When they visit pretty place (like the very popular Switzerland) they hardly do more than walk around look, take a picture and leave. Certainly never ponder what it is they saw and why they liked it. Almost as though it was a synthetic theme park, not a real place. One of the most popular places for Japanese to visit is Surfers Paradise in Australia. It is well documented that these Japanese tourists almost NEVER walk on the beach in bare feet. Let alone get their ankles wet. If you ignore the beaches (as the Japanese do) then Surfers Paradise is one of the ugliest places I could imagine. In this case the beauty is ignored all together for the exclusive benefit of the ugly.

 

Switzerland is also a bit of an unfair comparison as it is in all honestly and endlessly stunning country. With every season it just excels in its beauty. It is naturally abnormally pretty and almost anywhere looks shabby by comparison. And I think Italy is a great place, but some towns in the lower alpine areas just might surprise you. Not pretty at all, it isn't just Japan. On the other hand, there are some absolute stunners as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wengen is a nice place. I've only seen it in Summer but I imagine in Winter it would be spectacular.

 

The really strange thing about Japan is that the Japanese culture has developed a highly refined sense of aesthetics and style. Although the sense of style embodied in the average salaryman would suggest otherwise! ;\) It’s not as if Japan has suffered the kind of crass utilitarianism that, for example, blights many former communist countries so it’s bizarre that they’ve haven’t taken this capacity for fine aesthetics and applied it to their architecture. Instead they’re gone for the ugliest form of construction imaginable. I wonder how a Japanese person who appreciates the nuances of the tea ceremony, ikebana, the minimalist beauty of Japanese design and the intricately designed kimonos, doesn’t look out at the Japanese countryside with its crappy grey buildings, tangled wires and concrete and think WTF have we done!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I must have failed to spot the beauty of Nozzle in all my trips there. If 1970s modaan Japanese is your favourite architectural style I'm sure it's quite charming, but otherwise what's special about it? The hot running water is an interesting feature, but not in any way handled to aesthetic advantage.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You also beat any other European by shere ugliness. (except 1 or 2 nice villages, like Briancon or Chamonix)

 

In France it is more a laissez-faire policy where the locals just don't care what you are up to (that makes skiing in France so great) and they start to understand that a simple smile now and then brings in cash.

 

In Switzerland they care but not in an friendly way and you pay a lot more for this 'service'. What can you expect after sitting high on a mountain 6 months a year with only your cows to talk to.

 

Austria is a bit less scenic than Switzerland but the people tend to be more open and friendly.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
Originally posted by SerreChe:
Have you been to France Sanno ?! lol.gif
We make the Swiss look good!
I have been going to France and Switzerland every year for the past few years and my general impression agrees with what SerreChe says.
Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
Originally posted by Sanno:

In Switzerland they care but not in an friendly way and you pay a lot more for this 'service'. What can you expect after sitting high on a mountain 6 months a year with only your cows to talk to.
Hang on, don't the kiwis spend all year with only the sheep to "talk" to, but they are an extremely friendly bunch! Maybe cows don't provide as nice "conversation" as sheep...
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Rach.

 

I really agree with RagDoll as well.

 

A pretty town in Switzerland that I saw recently was Oberwald. There are loads more, I have not seen a fraction of the country.

 

Re the diversion: Swiss v France.

 

- Pretty factor: I have only been to Chamonix (area) in the French Alps, no where else. It is attractive enough for me, but not a scratch on Switzerland.

 

- People factor Swiss: I see why the Swiss have their reputation, but I don't think they deserve the bashing that they get. I am biased as I quite easily identify with the order and efficiency of the Swiss. I don't like random unreliable mayhem (I struggled in Italy ;\) ). The Swiss folk are a little too robotic, but I have had very nice and helpful people cross my path every time I visit the country (about 10 times in the last 7 months). Switzerland is also the only place where I have seen baggy pant half pipe tossers smoking massive joints in public outside resort restaurants etc. It appears in some respects quite opened up and liberal.. Switzerland is also the most dog friendly place I know of yet it is very clean.

 

- People factor France: All except for one encounter with a horrible woman, the French in Chamonix have been really helpful and nice. It seems that the tourist office have gone out of their way to make sure only really nice people sell tickets and deal with people. I almost wrote the mayor a letter to let him know just how nice everyone is to me (and to say thanks for the availability of free alpine heli rescue). Imagine this: morning of a busy powder day at Grand Montets. I buy my tickets with my French vocab of 8 words. I was doing fine but the 40 year old French lady pulled out her French-English phrase book and started trying to have a laugh about a mistake she made. Apparently the French don't do that in other towns.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"I think I must have failed to spot the beauty of Nozzle in all my trips there. If 1970s modaan Japanese is your favourite architectural style I'm sure it's quite charming, but otherwise what's special about it? The hot running water is an interesting feature, but not in any way handled to aesthetic advantage."

 

Ocean, it's all relative. Compared to places like Iwappara or Mitsumata, Nozawa with its narrow little streets seems to have more of a traditional feel to it. I agree about the hot running water. Those public onsens are pretty rough and ready. And bloody hot too! I reckon that's a major cause of the declining Japanese fertility rate right there!

Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bushpig:
[Hang on, don't the kiwis spend all year with only the sheep to "talk" to, but they are an extremely friendly bunch! Maybe cows don't provide as nice "conversation" as sheep... [/QB]
Kiwis have been doing that for about 100 years. We are talking here about more than 1000 years degeneration or it might just be the result of inbreeding during long winters cut off from the rest of civilization.
Serious, I haven't got a clue but somehow the Swiss I have met in the hospitality business seem to think that you should feel very priviliged that you can stay with them. Then I'd rather go to Austria where the people seem to appriciate that you have choosen to stay with them for your vacation.
Link to post
Share on other sites

You would have heard it because it is true. The Swiss are a different bunch of people, quite strange they are. Once I came to terms with the fact that they are quite different, I didn't find them rude any longer. There is a fair bit of cultural differences at play. Just because someone isn't flooding with smiles and gestures as they take your money from you doesn't mean they are rude. But I can see how they got the reputation.

 

ps - I admit that an everyday rude person who is also robotically Swiss will appear to be the worlds biggest rude bastard.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that they are happy. They just don't appear so in our eyes. Swiss people are not particularly emotional or expressive. Unfortunately, as well as this I reckon there is some good old plain vanilla 'them and us' attitude. You are either Swiss, or you are not. Kind of like Japan. I have heard that foreigners living long term in Switzerland develop a bit of an anti Swiss complex, they say that they are weirdo's (the Swiss). Apparently the least happy Swiss people are those living in the French speaking area. They are considered sub-Swiss y the German speaking Swiss.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am no expert, but it seemed if a person comes from the French or Italian speaking parts of Switzerland then they also speak German. If you came from the German part then it was not a given that you spoke French or Italian, but it wouldn’t be unusual if you did. It is quite normal for a European to speak 2 languages any way. Most (educated) Europeans I know speak 3 languages with ease, usually German, French and English.

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...