Snow Camping - for fun!

[cayote 0]

This winter, I want to snow camp and be really comfortable.

 

So, I've purchased Gore-Tex shells, insulation, -18C sleeping bag, Thermarest, Sierra Designs Alpha CD, and a MSR Dragonfly stove - gear good enough for Everest Base Camp.

 

Has anyone camped up on a resort mountain overnight?

 

Any recommendations around Minakami, Kagura or Naeba?

[mattlucas 0]

That must have cost just a bit of money

Quite an investment. Hope you like it. It's not for everybody.

[scouser 4]

Call me a wuss, but that don't sound like a whole lot of fun to me.....

 

Have you done this before?

[Telleboy 0]

Dude come to hakuba in Jan and you can dig a snow cave in my car park and try it out for a night if you want, see whether you freeze your sack off or not before getting up on the mountain.

[cayote 0]

Yesss - I've done it before around Kagura, Yuzawa and Minakami.

 

Last winter, a 5C-rated bag didn't keep me warm, so I got the ACME company (Moosejaw) to send me a -18C-rated bag.

 

There seems to be plenty of SCEPTICISM out there from you 'snow hounds'.

 

With good gear and skills, I believe that snow camping is a comfortable and thrilling experience of the alpine environment - outside of the ski resort 'theme parks'.

 

Considering how long it takes to get to the top of Kagura - for example - it could be great to get an early start and put in the FIRST lines down the mountain in the fluffiest snow of the day.

 

Beep! Beep!

[Thunderpants 0]

Dragonfly is NOISY!

whisperlite is the way to go, cheaper and quiet

i've used whisperlite in 4500m altitude no prob.

[mattlucas 0]

Sorry Cayote

 

I'm sure you will have fun.

I love winter camping and for that matter camping in general.

 

I have the Whisperlight as well. Never used the DragonFly though. I love my stove although it has sent a fireball at my head a few times. But that is just from being careless.

[miteyak 0]

I'd have to third the whisperlite, had a few of them...

 

No sceptism here, but you were just asking about the Kagura area, no? Love snow camping, but prefer snow holing to tents. Much warmer.

 

Generally, for high mountains in Japan, however, I'd recommend a -30 bag, and for comfort, a down air mattress.

 

Oh, and if you're only stepping a few feet from the resort, go the whole hog... get yourself a little plastic sled, stack it with a barbie and plenty of meat, gas light, and have some real home comforts.

[miteyak 0]

Oh, and scouser... WUSS (call yerself a northerner )

[scouser 4]

Wuss I am then. I'll choose a nice warm bed and comfort cheers.

 

This sounds like the opposite of fun.

[bcoasis 0]

Nice one, you should have some fun! I have done a reasonable amount of camping around the Kagura bc. The coldest was -28C and that doesn't account for the windchill. It was so cold I couldn't put my hands out of my bag to have a cigarette and I am pretty committed to that habit. There are some great camping sites around Kireinoto (I am sure that's not the right spelling) which is the peak over from Kagura. Enjoy!

[gnosis 0]

I've done some in my time but not for a long time. Had some pretty rough nights out on the hills in France in extreme cold. Still here though. I'm not sure I'd put myself through all that again though, I'm past that now. ( )

[cayote 0]

Thanks for your comments.

 

BCOASIS - what was your sleeping bag's rating?

 

How did you access the Kagura BC - snow shoe?

 

What do Kagura staff think about people camping above the highest lift?

 

I don't have snow shoes.

 

I ordered a -29C Marmot Col bag online, though the shop screwed up and sent out a -18C Marmot Couloir bag that they offered to me at cost.

[scouser 4]

What are these bags like then? I can't imagine being not cold in such temperatures.

[mattlucas 0]

I just spent a night out at around 2500 metres. Beautiful clear night and then at around 3am it clouded over and started snowing. It was great fun although my tent is only a 3 season and the wind kept blowing snow under the fly and as the flakes where really small some of them got through the mesh of the inner wall.

 

But it was a fun time Only snowed about 2 or 3 cm's though

[bcoasis 0]

Cayote, my bag is a Macpac which is a New Zealand maker; awesome stuff but they don’t rate their bags. I forget what their actual theory is but basically they reckon the rating via temperature is misleading. Anyway mine is the second from the top of their range which I thought would do everything I wanted and it does. I guess it’s around

-26C to -32C. Your bag at -18C will be fine but you will have to factor wind chill into when and where you go. If you wanted you can buy outer bags which will raise the temp of your bag, Macpac make them and I would imagine other makers have them as well. One thing you must have is a thermal mat, I don’t know if you have one or not but I would rather mention it in case you haven’t. No bag will insulate you against the snow so one of these is a must; on one of my little adventures I saved some weight and left it behind. I will never do that again, no amount of gear and jackets under my bag would do the trick – f*#$%@g cold and uncomfortable.

I use skis with skins to get around so I would recommend you get some snowshoes, pretty hard to get anywhere useful without them. MSR snowshoes are very reasonably priced and are the lightest.

Kagura staff thinking is a contradiction in terms but anyway it’s National Park including the whole ski area so you can camp where ever tickles your fancy. Just make sure you fill out the Police form and you are fine.

As far as these bags go Scouser, they are comfortable and it’s beautiful up there. The experience won’t spin everyone’s wheels but I kind of like it.

[miteyak 0]

 Quote:

Originally posted by bcoasis:

-26C to -32C. Your bag at -18C will be fine but you will have to factor wind chill into when and where you go.

Although, of course, wind chill doesn't effect5 one in a tent.

I've camped and snowholed in Japan a good few times at around -30, so it does get down there, but a5t 1500 meters or lower, you should be OK.

Be warned, sleeping bag ratings have already factored in that you are using an appropriately rated mat AND are wearing appropriate thermal undies, and the thing is properly 'aired' plus all collars, hoods etc. are drawn tight.

It's a good idea to have a fewe spare degrees in case one of these factors aren't up to scratch.

Oh, and warm yourself before getting in tyhe bag, or toasty times could be a long way off.

[mattlucas 0]

I only have a 3/4 length pad and although in the summer it's fine the winter I have to get a full length one.

But on the past weekend I just put my backpack beneath my feet and it was fine. Quite comfy in fact.

 

For an outerbag I use the MEC Penquin (Canadian) It's also my summer sleeping bag. Weighs next nothing and fine for summer stuff and even better over my down bag.

[NoFakie 45]

I'd like to give it a go this winter.

 

Having seen how much all the gear costs, trying before buying seems wise.

[miteyak 0]

If you go to Korea, check out the down bags. I got a no-name from there for 10,000 yen and it:s easily as good as my north face exp. bag.

 

Save money on a tent and snowhole, its warmer, anyway... not to mention lighter.

 

Actually, I have a thermarest )4+ season and a spare whisperlite that I:d pass on for not a lot... (not to mention a couple of mangy four season tents) doesn:t have to cost too much.

[NoFakie 45]

Thanks for the info yakman. I was thinking more snowhole than tent, but put up some info on your gear and I'll have a look.

[mattlucas 0]

Yah yah

 

The 4 season tents. I want info.

[miteyak 0]

I'll get summut up soon, but here at work the older operating system and snowjapan members pages don't seem to get along. Actually, whole sections freeze my computer. No probs on OSX at home, so I'll get some pics up on the weekend, and do an inventory to see what's spare (and still working).

[Davo 1]

I'd love to give it a go sometime but would prolly only do it to get in position for some hiking that's difficult to do in one day. There's one awesome spot I've been to, accessed from Goryu, where if you camped overnight you could hike 2-3 laps of a steep peak before doing the long ride out. We were going to do at least part of the hike but the weather conditions were'nt ideal. Had also hiked for 4 hours already so it was kind of nice to just do the main descent in relative safety.

 

Waking up 2000 meters plus must be a great feeling. The ultimate escape from civilization.

[NoFakie 45]

Davo, did you make it to the Goryu hut?

 

For an easy night on the mountain, the hut (Happo Ike Sanso) at the top lift of Happo is open all year round. That's close to 2000m. If you get up just before sunrise, well before you can get there riding the lifts, it should be very spectacular. You can get an early start when the snow is in its best condition, and won't have to ride down carrying that much gear.