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In the end, did Hakuba village (not just the ken as a whole) benefit from having the Olympics or was it just more cost than worth? A Japanese friend was talking about that last night and he said that basically it was one big minus. I wasn't able to respond much but am interested in the topic and will be meeting him again next week so want to think about it.

 

What were the + and - points?

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Put it this way - there are a lot of empty/going derelect/abandoned hotels all over hakuba... which is great if you wanna be a ski bum squatter for the season, coz the real houses have no central heating anyway, so what difference would it make? ;\)

 

It's very cool that they had the olympics here and there are still olympic signs all over the village, but this town is poor and there are more hotels/pensions/ryokans in hakuba than you can shake a ski pole at, catering for the middle of the road japanese tourist market (the foreign market is a different issue) - i don't know how much money they make in winter, but i know they struggle in summer - and even still in winter, people say hakuba isn't what it used to be in terms of the numbers who come here.

 

Sorry perhaps i'm going slightly off topic, but they built a lot of hotels here to cater for the olympics and post olympics it doesn't seem to work... and the ski hills are empty mid-week in winter.

 

Olympics or not, this town doesnt operate the way other ski resorts do in other countries, because it's that - a ski town.... not a ski resort.

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EBC not alot of hotels were built for the olympics. The prefecture suffers some high debt for very many reasons. The olympics were part of the problem yes. When the japanese bid and got the olympics we have to remember that they were still at the high end of the bubble. Had the bubble not burst then would nagano be saddled with debt? good question.

 

EBC you cannot make the kind of central heating here in japan that is made in other countries. When a volcanic or Earthquake prone country puts natural gas or propane in the gound what happens when they burst?

 

House design also must be limited to light construction. Think about it and look at turkey or Irans major earthquakes. their buildings killed so many people when they fell. Now look at the Kobe quake and the numbers of dead altough high were nowhere near the other countries totals.

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It's not about propane/natural gas

It's about insulation and thick windows

But that's not what this is about

 

It doesn't look like Hakuba benifitted from the Olympics other than getting more international recognition than it ever would have before

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I don't think it is a ski town. It is a town, near mountains with a bundle of ski areas. Unless the whole local tourist industry joins hands it will be difficult to attract more international tourists who stay a week or more. (occupying beds on weekdays)

 

Have a look at Niseko. Somehow they got it right. Everyone seems to know about Niseko and plane loads of int. tourists are coming spending plenty of cash (and making trouble at the same time). The one's who have been there a few times might go to other nearby resorts on Hokkaido. Just a handful take a better look at what else is around and visit Honshu.

 

If Hakuba can make a solid fist (with nice package deals incl. a village wide skipass) and have some marketing money to spend to convince Qantas and some Australian touroperators that there is more than just Niseko/Hokkaido it might make a big difference in a few years.

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yeh that's kinda what i mean by ski town - a town near mountains with a bundle of ski areas. it's not really a ski resort as we know them in europe (there would be lifts up yari if this were europe) - it would be nice to see hakuba get its act together and do it properly, make some money and put better lift technology (with better design and positioning) on the hills - but in a way it wouldn't - i like hakuba coz it doesn't have europe's lift queues.

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It really is the international aspect that they need to get going isn't it. Does Nagano have a decent airport? Getting that set up to take international flights would be a big benefit for all of the resorts in the area. Pretty soon the massive Chinese middle class will decide that they can afford an overseas holiday and skiing is already becoming a popular thing for the aspirational class. If the Japanese ski industry could successfully tap even a fraction of that market it would revive places like Hakuba over night. The Japanese ski industry should take the initiative rather than wait for foreigners to come in and do the work (and get the benefits) ala Niseko

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The short answer is massive waste of money.

The biggest one for Hakuba is the jumping stadium whose upkeep is colossal and revenue is small.

 

There was almost incredible corruption surrounding both local politics and the hosting of the Olympics back in those days. The IOC is also to blame. On the Japan side, folk in Nagano City made far more than Hakuba ever did.

 

Central heating is good, but it doesn't run on fresh air, as British Gas users are increasingly realizing (up 15% a year for the past 2-3 years). In the long run, there are far cheaper ways of keeping warm. Passivhaus and soto-dannnetsu are representative technologies for doing so.

 

Overcapacity in the Japanese ski industry is due to the Japanese ski bubble, not the Olympics. In that sense, Hakuba is no different to anywhere else. Niseko is still way down on their bubble.

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My point being that the olympics are just part of the problem within the whole nagano area.

 

We should really not compare numbers anymore to the ski bubble. resorts should set better goals and think about how to achive them. Look at the number of people you need per year to make a profit and aim for that goal.

 

Insulation is a big problem as it is so expensive in japan. One problem being that certain areas just dont need it for winter.

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not really a reason not to have it though FT. Many areas of Australia don't really need it, comparatively speaking, in the winter. But they all have it cos it is not only good for winter, but also for summer. It is such a huge cost saver on both heating and cooling.

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Happo shouldn't have filled in the half pipe last summer eek.gif

 

Expense, earthquakes... ok BUT freeeeezing your ass off? There was ice in the bottom of my shower this winter - i don't need a down bag for camping up mountains, i need it for in my house! The central heating issue is by far and away on the top of my list of unfathomable mysteries of Japan!

 

I'm looking at my experience in Japan as training for a future arctic expedition lol

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thats cause you school board is using housing that was made after the freaking war ebc. Cool in summer yes bp if you have an AC. I think that better stuff should be used as well ive just stated reasons for why it isnt widely used. heck ACs arent as widely used here as they are in other countries.

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no not true FT. With proper insulation, a 40 degree day can be nice and cool inside IF you use it properly and open the house at night, and shut it all up properly before it gets hot in the morning (very early at about 6/7am). You can quite comfortably go the day without AC. Trust me, this is how many people operate in Australia. A decent house design can trap a lot of heat/cool depending on the season.

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yes yes but i wont be opening my windows in japan for fear of the bloody mosquitos. Humidity plays a big factor and you didnt consider that. in kyoto its 30 at night. that isnt cool at all. i aggree with most of what you guys say though but that it is not as easy as it sounds.

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screens are necessary yes. Humid places like the northern half of Aus can and do work with the humidity quite successfully. It isn't a defining problem. Often an AC is necessary to take the edge off, but unlike in Japan, the edge disappears and stays gone for quite a while. Not like here, where 5 mins after turning the heating/AC off it is boiling/freezing again. Insulation works.

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Hmm. We have central heating, air conditioning, insulation, double glazing and fly screens. The house is very comfortable, so the next time you're hot, cold or bothered, don't worry about me. I'm OK \:\)

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I think it is being done. Where we live, all of the housing plots have been reduced in number and increased in size. The entire neighbourhood will have been demolished by the end of this year, and has mostly been rebuilt. The roads are being realigned, and the sprinkler systems replaced with closed loop heated pavement. I think most people are building to a modern standard.

 

I wish they were burying the power lines though.

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It's a great benefit for Hakuba to get international recognition at Olympic game time. But, I guess they would been burdened with debt from overinvestments on ski industry.

There might be egotism among towns and villages. I was very suprised that there is no "regular" common ski pass from Sun-Alpia ski resort thru Tsugaike ski resort. They may excuse they sell it with a "special" term. No excuse! It must be in regular. No common shuttle bus is another issue. Some told "That's Tugaike business" when asking how to go to Tsugaike with shuttle bus. I must get angry. We want to enjoy and love "total Hakuba", not only your resort! Are you folks had lived together along Itoigawa Kaido (a traditona road from Ohmachi to Itoigawa)?

Another problem is the developing concept/plan of the resort town. You can see crowded lodges near to Happo ski slopes, while you can see open area near to Hakuba JR station. When you stay at Misorano village, it may be hard work to go to bars at Happo in the night time. Accomodations want customers to pay money at their own facilities. No one think seriously about terms of "total", "four seasons", and "customer wants".

Don't say Hakuba is a remote locaton for excuse. Vail is far from Denver. Jackson Hole is also far. Big Sky is far from Bozeman. If you stay at Frisco (CO.), you can go several resorts around Frisco by "free" shuttle bus. The shuttle bus fare between Jackson Hole down town and JH ski village is cheap.

Hakuba service providers must learn much about operations/managements of four seasons recreation system from many US local resorts. I dare say they may learn nothing when staying at Ritz Carlton, Vail.

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