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For the benefit if riding switch much more often I have been using a duck stance nearly all season. At first I found it had a few edging control issues that I need to correct my technique for, but other than that I am totally comfortable with it (+27/-10). Except for when I ride powder. Then it sucks. Do other people find the same or is it a technique, body posture thing I need to work on?

 

Duck opens up my stance and leg posture, sort of pointing the knees outwards and keeps my body and shoulder aligned with the board. I like this for hard pack cruising and consistent surfaces. But when the surface becomes inconsistent or less carvy and more surfy then I struggle with duck.

 

On another matter, yesterday I stuffed around with my binding placement (duck angles) and did something bad. My back foot kept trying to swing around on the toe side. It was annoying and almost resulted in some nasty edge catches. Turned out I had set the rear foot binding much closer to the toe edge than the front foot. This probably also explained why my tow turns skidded out and my heel turns were hard to finish off. A silly mistake.

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Think I went the opposite way to you... for years have been riding quite duck footed - about the same as yours... and for years have been trying to get rid of the slight slide on my frontside turns, all along thinking it was just poor technique. A few weeks ago after the rains it was horribly icey up at Hakuba and combined with blunted edges, was getting a bit dangerous. Figuring I wasn't gonna get much else out of the day I decided to fiddle with the bindings and moved my front angle back slighty to more like 20,-10 and was amazed that after years of yelling at myself to stop kicking out my back leg on turns, it was actually too much front angle that was pulling things around... amazed what a difference 6 degrees can make.

 

Otherwise generally don't change bindings too much - or maybe I should try - but do move them back without changing angles if I'm riding powder... I find having my weight far back pretty unstable on groomers, and tend to ride switch a lot too, so generally only do it when I know I'm gonna be OB most of the day - not quite comfortable dodging the trees switch just yet...

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i reckon you`re always going to have to make compromises when you move your bindings. more duck makes mach-9-ing a little harder, powder shredding a little less natural etc. less duck or both bindings pointing forward can alleviate these problems but make switch riding, especially switch spins pretty hard.

 

having said that, terje rides with both bindings well forward, or at least he did for a long time, and he`s the don in any scenario. same goes for loads of good riders.

 

i`m more duck than i ever have been this season. plus 18 and minus 15. the gains in the park and in my switch tree and pow riding far outweigh any losses i`ve experienced when really gunning it in my natural stance.

 

it all depends on what kind of rider you are, how your body posture is, what you like doing. i love switch runs and switch hits, i also skate a lot. my style of riding really suits my stance, in pow, trees, the park and on the piste. i am more comfortable at the moment than ever, and my riding is the strongest it`s ever been in any aspect of shredding.

 

it`s different for everybody, you`ve just got to try all of the options out and see what works for you. styles are different.

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I'm 100% duck stance. Once you get used to it I can't see the reason for any other way to ride. even if you boarder cross. I find switch riding to be way more natural...depending on the course or your jump, etc., you might want (need) to be goofy or regular.

 

I guess alpine is the exception.

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Interesting thoughts. I have only been in a park perhaps 3 times (honestly) so can't count the benefit that duck brings to that area of riding. But I have without question opened up the early stages of switch riding thanks 100% to converting to duck. I am not a very good switch rider (I look like a middle beginner who has learnt how to link turns). But I can land little powder jumps switch and also run into the same hits switch. It opens up a whole heap of 180 fun.

 

I think perhaps duck is naturally a little more awkward to ride in powder, especially if you have to constantly weight the back foot in heavy wet fresh snow and anticipate lumps and bumps at the same time. But I will not settle with the conclusion that it is the ducks fault. I reckon most of my problems are coming from my technique and uncomfortable body rotation when riding powder.

 

I might also try less angle on the front to see if it helps with my tail skid (and perhaps also my nose over-steer)

 

I think the biggest thing I give up with duck over forward is that a correct duck body alignment makes it harder for me to anticipate and manage bumps, chop and lumps under the snow when off-piste. If the line is clean then perhaps it is not as much of an issue. Again, this could be my body technique more than the duck.

 

Perhaps it is time for a snobo lesson to correct any technique issues I have (I have never had a lesson or any instruction at all so no doubt, I do something fundamentally wrong)

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For me riding powder sucks duck. Having a forward stance just seems super natural riding pow. Its the only time i ride with a forward stance. The rest of the time (ie:in OZ) I ride approx +20-8. Duck seems gentler on my knees also....if I hit alot of jumps with a forward facing stance my back knee can ache for weeks, like it is right now!

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 Quote:
Originally posted by stepchild:


having said that, terje rides with both bindings well forward, or at least he did for a long time, and he`s the don in any scenario. same goes for loads of good riders.

I am 12 and 30... to me duck makes no sense...but thats just me, who am to tell the rest of the world there wack.

But seriously riding backwards with these angles is not a problem, its like anything you just adapt.

most of my friends ride duck and slay powdies, but terje is my hero and I do what ever he does.
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i boarded a season duck. thought it was definitely the way foward. and as le spud says"opens up a whole lot more 180 fun".

However, for elegant carving and clean turns uck dosent dosent cut the mustard i find. ive compromised with zero on my back foot.

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There is amazingly little on the internet dedicated to free ride snowboarders in terms of technique, stance etc. Perhaps that is a reflection of the word 'free'. There is heaps for carvers, they love their gear, their techniques, their ways and means. Same for skiers, particularly Telemarking dudes. Skiing in general has a few distinct technique schools. Yet general snobo has bugger all (that I can find via Google). This is frustrating. You get dedicated snobo sites for specific disciplines (carving, split board) but nothing for general free riding technique. Try a Google and all you get is crap on sites that amount to not much more than advertising portals, especially the about.com rubbish. Perhaps boarding is really the general entry access point for masses of people who otherwise don't care about snow and technique? It is like the body boarding of the surfing world (no offence to those body boarders out there who are actually good at what they do).

 

The 'do what ever suits you' line doesn't cut it either. Sure, you ultimately choose on that basis, but you can't choose until you have sampled different stances in different terrains using the appropriate technique for that angle.

 

By technique I mean alignment of the body, shoulders, knees, edge pressure transfer, board torsional flex, front/rear pressure transfer etc etc. The most graceful and efficient way to snowboard powerfully with the greatest control: what technique + stance set up meets this objective?

 

Any takers?

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I do think it really goes back to personal preference. I have a natural duck walk(feet point out) and incredibly tight achilles' so anything but duck doesn't work for me. I've seen guys rip every type of terrain with different stances. Just try different stances. I find that when I get the best angles I can ride so much better than before

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le spud. man, i hear you, i hear you, but the wicked thing about snowboarding is how so many people have their own styles. my riding buddies and i used to be able to spot each other so easily on busy days just by the way we rode. that's a good thing i think. we should all be carving up the hill in our own way. sure, you can be more efficient in your style, more compact, more aesthetically pleasing, but you should be riding however you want. i remember watching the trainee instructors in whistler cruising the hill, all with really similar posture, stance etc. they all looked solid, but all the same. it's cool seeing people ripping it up in their own way. stood up, bow-legged, duck, crouched, whatever. try all the angles and stances, see what works for you and hit it up.

 

so basically, i'd like to believe that there is no optimum set-up & stance combination. just rock it.

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I used to be an Instructor in Australia and the states. If you ride a duck stance in an exam in australia you will fail. Even If you are the best rider there you will still fail.

The APSI (australian professional snowsports instructors) believe that duck stance does not help the rider. Duck supposedly projects the body and weight away from the edge and makes flexing ankles knees hips and spine more difficult.

 

I dont know if you saw Hannah Teeter rip it up in the pipe in the winter olympics. Watch her as she rides in fakie. She has forward angle on her back foot and she is doing 9's in the pipe.

 

After saying all that I still find myself ducking out my stance -9 +18. I find it more comfortable for simple chillin cruising and hucking. When you want to ride agressively in trees, bumps or carving I really don't think duck helps at all.

 

Having a massive duck stance or a massive front angle will mess up your riding.

 

If you are pushing the board around to finish turns it sounds like you have to much pressure on your back foot. weight should be even on feet and board and shoulders should be aligned no matter the pitch. people will always try to match shoulders to horizon ( me on steeps) and then wonder why they cant turn on steeps.

 

anyways that is enough rambling. Back to autocad

 

DaViD

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I tried duck, dont like it, wasnt at all comfortable, my balance was wrong, too much pressure on my back knee.

 

I cant remember what angles I ride I havent changed them in 6 years, got them right after lots of fiddling and left them.

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After messing around with binding angles for years I found that setting the binding angles to the natural stance angles of my feet feels and works the best. My natural stance is slightly duck so I simply stood in my bindings and set them to my natural stance. Feels comfortable and responsive. As with most things in life whatever feels or comes natually is generally the best for the individual.

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Ive ridden duck (+15/-15) since day one, with a totally centered stance on a twin-tip board. I didn't want to learn to board with any preference in terms of direction, so whenever I managed to do something regular, I'd turn around and try it switch (although I didn't really have a regular and a switch, if you see what I mean...)

 

Ive pretty much persevered with the same idea in mind for 2 seasons, and have been happy with the results. The only downside of this technique that I (in my unpreofessional opinion) can see is that it sucks a bit in powder as your legs ache from leaning so far back. It's nice to not have to worry if your facing the wrong way, and has given me a lot of confidence on the slopes.

 

I think this technique is pretty good for beginners too, as when you are doing falling leaf etc. I think its good for turns in both directions to feel exactly the same, leaving you to decide (without bias generated by board setup favouring a certain direction) which setup, regular or goofy, is for you.

 

I don't know of the health implications though, regarding damage to your knees, I'd never thought of that.

 

This, of course, is just one mans opinion, but I can safely say that boarding duck has certainly worked for me.

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I think the verdict here is ducks belong in water and parks not powder. Considering 11 of my last 11 days riding have involved powder I think its case closed for me (not that it was ever open anyway) and for many others who freeride in the pow of Japan.

I can see the benefits of duck stance in freestyle riding - pipes and snowparks but since this place is endowed with great snow, I think there will be many regular stance freeriders here

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