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sakebomb when Aussies visiting London go out and get drunk do we claim they are being culturally insensitive? No, we just think they're idiots. Why is getting drunk in Japan any different? What part of Japanese culture is it especially offensive to?

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Originally posted by Go Native:
sakebomb when Aussies visiting London go out and get drunk do we claim they are being culturally insensitive? No, we just think they're idiots. Why is getting drunk in Japan any different? What part of Japanese culture is it especially offensive to?
a country has to HAVE a culture before anyone can be "culturally insensitive" confused.gif
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Originally posted by sakebomb:
I can see the differences between Aussie culture and Japanese culture but I am having trouble identifiying the cultural differences between Aussie culture and English culture........care to point these out!!
The point is not about whether there are differences or commonalities between Japanese and Australian cultures. Many people seem to feel that Aussies getting drunk and being loud in Niseko means they are being 'culturally insensitive'. Please advise me what part of Japanese culture drunken Aussies are insensitive to? I'm not saying I think it's good behaviour or that I like it. I'm just saying that I fail to see what is culturally insensitive about it.
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People are gonna get loud , let their hair down and generally be noisy anywhere they go on holiday. Apart from the obvious annoyance this may/may not cause the locals, I don't really mind it too much. My only point is that if I have the choice of going somewhere I have heard there are huge groups of foreigners (in this case they happen to be Aussies, but they could be any group for all I care) in a fairly confined area, or going somewhere where it is very much less in your face, then I'm gonna choose the second option. GN, I agree that the culturally insensitive argument is a bit flimsy. To me that's not really the point. I thought Niseko was magical each time I went there, but for the time being I'm gonna choose to go somewhere else because of the nature of the place now.

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GN

 

I can kind of see why you are taking the line that you are, and it is a risky one. In the end, if I lived in your situation, I personally would not shape my outlook of what is acceptable Australian drunken behaviour based on your conclusion. I think it will backfire in the end.

 

Japanese people are generally comfortable seeing other Japanese people getting drunk and being loud in their own home (ie, the country of Japan)

 

Japanese people are not comfortable seeing bigger, louder and quite accurately, more violent* westerners getting drunk when they are visitors in their own home.

 

Secondly, a pack of loud drunk and intense Aussies in London is WAY different to the same pack in Japan. But it still is a problem in London. Likewise backpacker poms in Sydney getting hammered in their shiny footy shirts singing loud annoying and intense footy songs. I lived in Bondi and I didn't like that behaviour much, yet I used to get hammered and loud in Bondi all the time.

 

I am not unique in that I have a Japanese partner. But one thing I know for sure is that when I get drunk, loud and more intense/ and obnoxious, she feels uncomfortable. She has worked and travelled all over the world and lived about 5 years of her life outside of Japan. Yet she still finds western drunken behaviour to be uncomfortable. I put this down to being a cultural difference and dare say that it is a micro representation of the greater situation in Japanese towns which are populated by far more insular Japanese people than my gf.

 

I think the bottom line is that Japanese people do not like seeing drunken westerners. It makes them uncomfortable. Even if this is seen as an irrational or unfair heuristic, it is not an argument to condone loud and obnoxious Aussie drunks in Japan. Not recognising that discomfort and also teh typical Japanese contradiction** is culturally insensitive.

 

* I do not imply that every Niseko drunk Australian is violent. But western drunks are quite simply more violent than Japanese drunks and we understandably have that reputation in Japan.

 

** Japanese contradiction #452: Japanese people are quiet, subtle and non-confrontational... until such time that they choose not to be. And there are two sets of rules or basis for judgement: one for us, one for them.

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What's with the obnoxious part of "drunk and obnoxious"anyway? There's no need for it really. At best it suggests a need to take it easy on the booze; at worst, a mainfestation of the inner wanker.

 

I think spud has a good point about cultural differences. The Japanese can get as drunk and loud as the best of them, but they're generally far less obnoxious than western pissheads. One of the reasons I love living in Japan is the lower degree of random drunken violence, and the general absence of the the "WTF are you looking at?" attitude.

 

I don't think good natured, loud, drunken behaviour is really culturally insensitive in Japan. Anyway it's not like Nisekko is Kiyomizudera on a Sunday afternoon is it? It's a resort where people should be having fun. Violence and obnoxiousness don't fit into the fun angle and it'd be a sad thing if that were descending on Nisseko as a result of package tourism. If I was a local it'd make me want to open up a can of wuppass on that crap.

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When Tokyu decided to sell the Hirafu to Australian investment company, we and people in Niseko knew that many Australians would come. Who could stop this business deal between them? Some local people are happy and some are not. There are good things and bad things. I think (hope) local people will learn how to deal with those drunken and lound aussies soon. By the way, what were the Niseko problems? I forgot. Too many aussies?

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Thanks for that Spud. Certainly explains things so that I understand the 'culturally insensitive' argument better. Also helps put in perspective one of the problems we face living here, that we are judged by a different set of rules than they judge themselves by.

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Originally posted by Indosnm:
But the main question is WHY do so many aussies come to Japan for snow?
I haven't skiied in Japan, but my +1 and his mates are in Niseko at the moment.

The benefits for Aussies to head to Japan rather than Europe or north America are the time difference, and flight times as well as the awesome snow quality and quantity AND it's during our summer, so means we can extend the amout we do ski once our season (which is crap by comparison) finishes.

Personally, I prefer to experience the culture of the place i am visiting, rather than a mini australia in someone else's country.

I hope Niseko doesn't become a Whistler, if it isn't already, and that the Japanese influence over the town's style and development is strong and also welcoming to everyone who would like to go there, where ever they are from.

The final reason Niseko is so popular is it's the first and most prominently promoted resort in Australia by Ski Japan and Snow Wave travel the 2 main promoters of JaPOW.
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Originally posted by Davo:
I think spud has a good point about cultural differences. The Japanese can get as drunk and loud as the best of them, but they're generally far less obnoxious than western pissheads. One of the reasons I love living in Japan is the lower degree of random drunken violence, and the general absence of the the "WTF are you looking at?" attitude.
Agreed. When I was back in the States or in Oz it was just stupid watching people get all worked up over stupid things. They (westerners) get into with other people because they looked at their GF wrong or offered to buy a girl a drink when her BF was takin a slash. You'd think they'd take it as a compliment that they have a hottie confused.gif

Thats the same reason why I like living here. You can go out with your mates and drink some beers without @ssholes gettin in your face.
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I agree with most of the stuff said above, but having said that, when I’ve been in Niseko – off resort, I’ve never seen a Police Officer. If the problem is with ‘civil disturbance’ and yokel behaviour, why not tread heavily on the scum-bags that wanna spoil it for the rest?

 

A few arrests and time spent in a cell with Officers who generally don’t speak English will usually scare a moron whose ego is boosted by alcohol. Additionally, it will bugger their on-snow time/holiday, which might stop said morons from visiting the place in the future.

 

Perhaps the local Politicians are deterring Police involvement because of the big bucks being brought into the area? If so, then the problem isn’t necessarily with the yokels, it’s with the locals!

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police presence is virtually nil anywhere in Japan. I don't think that has much to do with politicians interfering. Japan just traditionally doesn't have and hasn't generally needed this. So from that point of view, then drunkards expecting to be able to get away with anything until cops lock them up (as is the mentality of many in other countries - do whatever you can get away with) is quite culturally insensitive. They show a lack of understanding as to how things work here if they expect to be able to be loud and disorderly until cops come along. Japan really works off the idea of "meiwaku". In other words, making sure you aren't putting other people out. This doesn't mean there aren't dickheads here too, but it is a very big part of Japanese culture.

 

Besides, would a few arrests really stop the general raucus behaviour, which locals may find intimidating, even if it may not be bad by our standards?

 

Sub-zero, I don't think most people on here are referring to such extreme behaviour anyway. Just the general agression and loudness that comes with the large foreign crowds. Not necessarily breaking any laws as such.

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Agreed – but it must be more than simply a case of being extroverted.

 

Difficult one to fix – perhaps it’s a case of many alternatives to correct the imbalance e.g. policing, education and to some extent, peer pressure, and if alcohol is the problem, hotel proprietors not serving inebriated quests more alcohol (that’s done in many countries)

 

It’s really a problem that needs to be addressed by the Japanese authorities taking a stance rather than sitting on their hands.

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How can authorities realistically deal with agroup of foreigners who are here for a very short stay, who bring with them their cultural behaviour?

 

Again, I don't think it is outright dangerous/unlawful behaviour which is a turn-off for many of us, but just the general atmosphere in general.

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She has worked and travelled all over the world and lived about 5 years of her life outside of Japan. Yet she still finds western drunken behaviour to be uncomfortable. I put this down to being a cultural difference
You sound like this is a 'Japanese' problem.

Is anyone here 'comfortable' or happy with (regardless of culture) drunken behaviours?
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