thursday 1 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Oh, so too did Sapporo. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 thursday look at the japanese tourist board numbers and you will see that we do alot of overseas guests here in hakuba. the difference is that we are spread out and have more skiing. Link to post Share on other sites
muikabochi 208 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I bet there'd be a fight in the police office over who got the Niseko job! Link to post Share on other sites
I'm Sexy 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I will go Niseko next season, I want to see how it changed. And of course snow is very good! Link to post Share on other sites
Roger's head 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I wonder what the number of police is in Japan compared with say the States of the UK? I hardly ever see them here. They seem pre-occupied with catching people going 5km over the speed limit on country roads. Link to post Share on other sites
Go Native 70 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 It's not that it's that bad here. Problems happen rarely and for the most part everyone has the time of their life. It's just on those rare occasions things can get pretty bad. For instance last Australia Day there were at least 3 large brawls outside different bars around the town. At one bar there was a group of 20 or so Aussies in an all out brawl with a whole lot more looking on. It's that sort of thing that a quick police response would be most welcome. Also theft is becoming more common place during the winter and a more obvious police presence may help to reduce this. Let's face it, if you get a few thousand Aussies together in one place anywhere in the world having a little police presence is not a bad thing. Link to post Share on other sites
@tokyo 14 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 What do the Japanese population think of all this Go Native? I bet they have rather complicated feelings on different levels. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 What date exactly is Australia day? I will avoid 2 weeks either side of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 >For instance last Australia Day there were at least 3 large brawls outside different bars around the town. At one bar there was a group of 20 or so Aussies in an all out brawl with a whole lot more looking on. Did you see this GN or is it a story you heard second hand? Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 australia day is jan 26. i don't really like hanging out with large groups of aussies overseas, and that's why i won't go back to niseko. but i know for many tourists, hanging out with a bunch of their fellow countrymen is a big attraction. when i was there a few years ago, the family i worked with were torn between the influx of new tourist dollars, and what this meant in terms of how it was changing the town and their business. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Truly the tourist dollars have been most welcomed. Cottage(?) industries like the tee shirt design shop and the re-distribution of millions of boxes of Royce chocolates has made a few locals rich. But only a handful compared to the foreign land mongers. Link to post Share on other sites
Hokkaidough 4 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I would describe it as complicated yes - different people are having different experience. Quite a few feel they are being suddenly pushed out, some are reaping some benefits. It might be easy to suggest that those who aren't as happy must adapt, but for some adapting is very difficult - especially if they can't speak the language and are up against for example foreign-owned pensions etc who can do their appealing to the gaijin much easier and more natually. Link to post Share on other sites
spook 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 yeah, i guess one side of the argument is that the locals could have jumped on board and developed land too. but if i'd found my town overrun with boorish foreigners, i'd be a bit annoyed. sure, the initial influx of tourists was probably welcomed, but this is quite different to what it has developed into. fights in the street...wtf? what on earth is wrong with (some) australian people? i know brits on tour, americans etc can all be unattractive too.. but many aussies have this need to travel in packs and behave like dickheads oh well, this has all been hashed out a million times before on these forums. Link to post Share on other sites
wendy-cake 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Lots of people reading it for the first time though.... Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 I can't believe this thing grew legs again and crawled out of the SJ basement! And I can't believe the discussion continues! Link to post Share on other sites
SnowJapan Admin SnowJapan 178 Posted May 31, 2007 SnowJapan Admin Share Posted May 31, 2007 I think the thread was getting from searches, then someone just dragged it up. Lots of people obviously find it interesting! Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 Yeah I know. In fact I think it was Thursday who linked it to another thread to give someone the background. Thanks Thursday! Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Yawn! Is there anything more tedious than the tyranny of development discussion? Yes foreigners made (are making) money from the boom in Niseko but so did: -the local owners of the land who otherwise had no prospects of realizing any value out of land they may have bought years previously at bubble prices. Absent the Niseko boom, no one else was going to buy it were they? -the builders and local trades people who live in the area -the local staff employed by the many new businesses springing up in and around Niseko (any foreign owned business will need Japanese speakers) The development boom has meant more work and from that more income for locals doing everything from clearing snow, driving food delivery vehicles, buses, working in stores, accountants, builders, plumbers, restaurants, local food growers, freeters, uni students looking to improve their English (I've personally met a couple in this category). All the extra services need people to supply them and those people need food and accommodation and everything else. Name a service and I'll show you a business that has seen a much appreciated growth in revenues. Increased visitors means more taxes for the local community, better infrastructure and a growing and vibrant community with land values appreciating when previously there was little to look forward to apart from a steady decline in prosperity. Across the nation, rural Japan is in terminal decline but niseko is enjoying an amazing boom - oh the horror! Of course some people will lose out - views lost, feel of the village changed, scary gaijin, etc. but let's get real, it's deluded to think that somehow the idea of the development of niseko is anything but an absolute god send to the local community. Let’s also get real about who was going to drive the development because without the foreign element it simply wasn’t going to happen. To state my bias - I own land in Niseko and probably wouldn't if it wasn't for the boom. However, in the times I've been there I've not seen a single example of bad uniquely foreigner behaviour. I can't help beleive that in a small community stories of bad events get circulated and talked up until they're blown out of all proportion - 20 people having an all in brawl in the street? - come on! What next? A foreign serial killer stalking the locals? Link to post Share on other sites
bushpig 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 All good points RD. Link to post Share on other sites
Hokkaidough 4 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I agree with most of what you are saying Rag-Doll. However it doesn't change the fact thought that on the personal level there are a fair number of Japanese who have very mixed feelings and find it almost impossible to catch-up/remain. They do exist in all this other wonderful news about "everyone benefitting". They may be insignificant in the big picture, but they are not insignificant to themselves. That's all I was saying, in answer to someone asking about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I hear what you're saying Hokkaidough and I agree. There will undoubtedly be people who will struggle to adapt and that is unfortunate. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Originally Posted By: Bushpig Yeah I know. In fact I think it was Thursday who linked it to another thread to give someone the background. Thanks Thursday! And thank you BP for starting this thread back in Jan 05. You will live in infamy alongside Jeannie. Link to post Share on other sites
thursday 1 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Must admit that groups of 20 brawling in the streets sounds far fetched. Imagine what horror that would’ve been and surely would’ve been reported in the papers or TV or something if it were entertainingly true. Rag Doll, don’t get all defensive and stuff just because I keep mentioning the land mongers, you are not in that group, SJers are exempt from any kind of criticism. You bought from a land monger and until you realise your gain you are also a victim. Freeter – good word “parasite single, living with parents” as described by Wik. And it continues: “Another problem is that many male freeters have difficulties marrying due to their low income, and therefore are expected to have children later in life or not at all. This will further reduce the already very low birth rate in Japan, compounding a number of other problems due to the aging population. Now, just how many freeters are in Niseko during the winter? How many freeters are there in Kutchan, being such a small town? Link to post Share on other sites
Rag-Doll 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Thursday, mate, I'm sorry if my rant seemed directed at you because it wasn't. Well, not really anyway. This whole commercial bad – traditional (read backward) good thing gets a bit much sometimes. If anyone reckons living in a community that is growing old at about the same speed as it is going broke is a good thing, then they should go and live there. Rusutsu probably looks at what is happening at Hirafu and asks now how can we get a piece of that – ok maybe not, in Japan they’re just as likely to say, well sure we’re losing a billion yen a year, but at least we’re not over run by gaijin! But you get the picture. Does anyone think Moiwa is complaining or that Niseko Weiss’s cat skiing is an attempt to keep the foreigners out? Victim? I don't feel that I'm in any way a victim of the boom. If anything, I’m annoyed at myself for not acting sooner. I own an apartment on one of two adjoining pieces of land that I was looking at buying. What’s more galling is that the apartment cost more than both pieces of land! But them’s the breaks and regardless, I have a holiday house (ok, it’s an apartment) in a snow resort that has better access, better snow and cost me less than a comparable place in the Australian snow fields, in North America or Europe. I bought it with some mates and it earns enough during the winter to pay off the yen loan and, if we were to sell at current property prices we would realize a significant capital gain. I'm taking my family up there again this winter (Whistler isn’t goona happen) and I'm sure that if we can manage to avoid the gun fights and bar room brawls and the gangs and prostitution and drug pushers, not to mention the suicide bombers, we'll have a pretty good time. As for freetas, perhaps I am misusing the term. I've always thought it meant generally waster kids who get by doing part time work...in that sense it probably describes half the drop out ski and snow boarding community. Next time you're in Niseko (or probably any snow resort) ask the kid waiting tables or standing behind the counter or working the lifts etc. why he/she is there. I reckon a lot of them will give the same anwer. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 investment in Japan in general is being driven by foreign investors. Tax revenue? As a whole Japan is not set up to make money from Taxing tourists. Investment is great as long as a good percent stays within the community or for that matter the country. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts