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Well this has gone back to the normal skiing under the lift thread of past

 

SKI we will just have to let this one go because we both have very different ideas as to personal resort use

 

So FT said in an earlier post that people have died going off that cliff

Does that mean that everybody that goes off it dies or are there a lot more people going off it?

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Sorry to hear that Blair.

Maybe some say rules are made to be broken, but if there's no rules at all, this world would be kaos. I totally agree to the opinion of _spud.

 

 Quote:
Originally posted by _spud:

If someone wanted to play in my house then they would play to my rules. It is as simple as that.

 

Good luck Blair! And remember: your house, your rules.

Also, I really hope that has not caused any stress, frustration to you, Blair.

 

wave.gif

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Thanks for all the posts, it always amazes me concerning the depth and width of the Snow Japan community.

 

I'm not the person with all the answers concerning this issue. I have however witnessed from start to finish the impact that somebody dying out of bounds has on both the staff at the resort as well as their families.

 

At Arai it is black and white in my mind as to where skiers and boarders can and cannot go. I realize that other resorts may have some grey areas.

 

Again, thank you very much for the words of encouragement/constructive criticism concerning this issue. Maybe these words will save some lives by a skier/boarder thinking twice before heading out of bounds?

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sorry a little late to this one, but, is the terrian in resort boundary and roped off? or, is the area out of the resort boundaries and simply public land? if it is public land great, do it all day long and if you die, break your femur, back, neck.... your problem/evacuation bill. end of story. resort can't do anything.

if it is within the area boundary, then stay clear. regardless of what the reasons are. do your research and find a huck some where else.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Blair:
Maybe these words will save some lives by a skier/boarder thinking twice before heading out of bounds?
If someone with experience dies making an informed risk inclined decision then so be it. That isn't any one else's concern except for family and friends. So perhaps the core issue at Arai is the avoidance of death on the Arai patch of snow. Now that could be bad for business.

'don't do this as it may result in your death, and we don't want your death on our snow.

Thanks for your concern.

It is quite clear that you must enforce your rules with more punishment for rule breakers, otherwise you will continue to attract the type of client that you do not want (being the types who have a habit of risking injury or death).

Although Toque is teasing a bit, he demonstrates the point perfectly: if the cost of such enjoyable action is losing your pass and a stern lecture or even being banned from the resort, then so what? People like toque will continue to visit Arai to make the most of what are clearly your greatest resort assets.
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Well this is quite an interesting. There are a couple of things come to my mind:

 

1) Blair's post seems to be coming under a certain amount of stress. It almost feels like you were forced by your management to post this. I hope this is not the case and that they are not threatening your job.

 

I would love to have a discussion with resort management at Arai regarding their off-piste policies. Blair, could you organize with SJ and your resort management to discuss about this openly on this forum? I know that the Arai management had an article at the beginning of the season in SJ, they seem to be forward-thinking, so maybe we could open the lines of communications with them?

 

2) During my last trip to Hakuba, I spent some time talking to some of the people who work in the resorts and have learned a lot from them.

 

It turns out that in the past, people with the proper equipment, experience, skills, and the intention to make their own decisions and ski at their own risk, ducked the ropes, got caught in an avalanche and killed/injured. Turns out that the said people then decided to sue the resorts for not restricitng the access better (despite knowing very well that it was out of bounds). It seems that in most cases the resorts lost! Even if you say "I ski at my own risks there", you never know for sure if you die OOB that your family is not going to take the resort to court...So when in court, seems the resorts are on the wrong end of the stick, which would explain why they would rather people not go OOB in the first place.

 

I wonder if there are some member of the legal profession on the SJ forum that could confirm the above in terms of precedence/cases.

 

I always wondered if a signed waiver (kind of like scuba diving) would be the answer. Probably too simple, but would like to find out.

 

Anyway, although I love to go out of bounds in search of my beloved powder/face shots, I also understand the angle the resorts are coming from.

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I hope he doesn't mind me saying this - actually I encouraged Blair to make the post when I first heard about the problem and the fact that Arai were going to make a posting on their website and hand out notices at the resort. It seemed like the best way to bring the topic up on here.

 

We would be happy to have more dialogue on the subject in the future - Blair and Arai knows that and the invitation is there...

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 Quote:
Originally posted by SerreChe:
I always wondered if a signed waiver (kind of like scuba diving) would be the answer.
SerreChe, do you dive?

The scuba diving liability waiver has been held to be invalid in many cases in Japanese courts.

I'm happy that Blair is participating in the forum and Snow Japan.

Blair, if you'd like some help with your Engrish, let me know. It is pretty obvious that that text was written by a Japanese lawyer. Did you or any other native English speaker proof that?
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Patrol must be more reasonable with their policing policies- full stop. Stopping people from entering potentially life threatening terrain is understandable. If this was the case then people would respect these rules. Stopping people from taking off-piste lines that are as safe as houses or even hits that are within resort boundaries does nothing but create bad vibes. How can a competent rider be able to progress, surely not everyone needs to be a backcountry enthusiast to develop. You guys spend way to much time on this. When riding with bad vibes, bad things will happen. Patrol are not police. Riders are not bandits (well some are). As a person who has ripped there fair share off lines, I would have to say the level of panese kids hitting it is drasticall increasing. The future of the resorts is in freeriding, not freestyle. get over it and get onto it. peace

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>At Arai it is black and white in my mind as to where skiers and boarders can and cannot go. I realize that other resorts may have some grey areas.

 

Fair enough. Even Niseko has a few places like that.

 

>1) Blair's post seems to be coming under a certain amount of stress. It almost feels like you were forced by your management to post this. I hope this is not the case and that they are not threatening your job.

 

Im not attackin your idea SerreChe but that would just be stupid if it was. How can one person (ie gaijin) at Arai take responsibility for others' actions??

 

Its really simple. Certain resorts are known for having either really strict or lenient patrol. Go to the resorts where patrol aren't Nazis and ski the terrain you want.

 

While Toque is being a smart@ss somewhat I do understand Toque's position because Ive seen the terrain he's skied and how aggressive, smooth, and fast he rips. He's one of those riders who will skin, hike, ice climb, and absail to get a line he wants. Sure all he wants is for J-resorts to become more progressive like their overseas counterparts.

 

Japanese pro skiers voices arent any different from Toques and in the long run they will have a bigger impact on resort administration/policy than any of us could ever hope for. We need more J-skiers/boarders to go overseas and come back with a more progressive outlook and knowledge on resort policy regarding backcountry and avie control and then inform the peeps in charge. It will happen. Just like everything else in this country change comes as slow as molasses.

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 Quote:
Originally posted by Fattwins:
Toque you can sometimes push it too far though and you know it. You would get banned at WB if you did runs that were closed and you wouldnt want that.
I have skied in a few permanently closed areas in W/B and experienced amazing runs of deep powder, pillows and cool straightlines. I do so at my own risk.


 Quote:
Originally posted by _spud:

Although Toque is teasing a bit
Somebody has to be the devils advocate on here everyonce in a while. Usually it's FT on the flat Niseko threads but on this issue it's gonna be me
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Legal precedent probably needs to be set too, where a resort is not held responsible for those who purposefully go out of bounds and die. But that looks unlikely with Scuba diving waiver forms being held invalid in the courts (interesting).

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