Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 128
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

 Quote:
Originally posted by SKI:
I'd be interested to know how you would propose that patrol 'police' (for want of a better word) the slopes for dangerous skiers.
hhhhmmmm...correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that a part of their job?!?!
Are you justifying the status quo of targeting OB riders instead of "dangerous skiers" b/c it's easier? I really don't think it's that complicated.
Everyone gets out of control at times, but it's obvious when riders are in over their head or are just going too fast in the wrong place. Suggestions: 1) Patroller stops them or catches up with them at the base, and talks to them about riding on an easier slope or slowing down when there are others about. 2) If they witnessed the rider in a potential close call, extend 'the talk'. 3) A near miss, take them into the office or yank the ticket if they're an @$$hole (the office talk actually worked on me as a young punk).
OB is a black and white issue and is an easy decision. Out of control is a big grey area that (I think) patrollers are less likely to lecture about. Of course this is my uneducated perspective from my experience in the states. Any former or current patrollers want to chime in?

btw, My opinion of a patrollers duty is to keep the riders and slopes safe so everyone can have fun. That includes both, keeping people out of dangerous areas (avy prone, etc. (I'm not going to argue hazard vs. skill)) and preventing others from getting nailed by high speed objects.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry Ricardo

The last thing I want is patrollers on every corner of a run making sure that everybody is in control. Do you want police on every corner of the street to make sure you don't get mugged?

 

I'm sorry about your friend but shit does happen. It happens in everyday life.

 

OB is not black and white

I'd say OB is more of a grey area depending on your view of what's outside the boundery.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely. Can you imagine the uproar if that happened? Perhaps they could have speed radars & cameras.

 

To a certain extent resorts are covered for accidents that happen on their slopes.

 

Accidents that happen out of bounds in areas that the resort tell their customers not to go are a different matter altogether though and cause endless problems.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe that was a stupid analogy on my part Ski

I don't want to see patrol standing on every corner of a run making sure that nobody is having any fun. Not only would it get boring for the rider being constantly watched but you can only imagine how boring it would be for the patrol.

 

and as for your third comment

It's going back to the endless discussion of

OB skiing vs. not having fun

and that has been done to death

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats a dead subject indeed.

 

I dont want the speed police on the hills like vail or Auz. People need to understand the code. When your on an easy run you have to care for the other people. Most of those people have enough trouble controling themselves to have to worry about someone bombing from behind.

 

When Im teaching sking I hate when people buzz my students cause it freaks them out. I gave a racer kid crap a few years ago for nearly bombing into me. I demanded to know where his coach was.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i think the 'police' analogy has gone too far. i continued with SKI's reference, but i wasn't suggesting speed cops out in force giving citations. just not letting near misses capable of fatalities go unchecked...like fattwins yelling at the racer.

to the resort, OB is black and white...in bounds or out of bounds. my opinion does not matter to patrol. i guess the greyness can arise when an area opens and closes throughout the season.

i can't argue the OB vs. no fun issue...i'll still do it. although i won't have many opportunities for that here. :crying graemlin:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

All this is talk about ski police is making me very nervous about my first snow trip to Japan outside of Hokkaido. After two trips up north I didnt expect there would be such a difference between ski patrols policy towards inbounds off piste. Oh well.....at least most of my trip is up in Hokkaido where I know I can get the goods!

Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
All this is talk about ski police is making me very nervous about my first snow trip to Japan outside of Hokkaido.
I may well be missing something here, but..... Hokkaido so different from Honshu places?

I personally think you'd be nuts to go out too far right now with the masses of snow and conditions at the moment.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I can only comment on what its like in Hokkaido as I wont have hit honshu until later this month. What I can say is that the two trips I have done up to Hokkaido (niseko/rusutsu)neither I or anyone I know have ever been hassled by the patrol up there. Most of the tree runs that are roped in Niseko have a gate with a warning sign but you are free to enter. Those that arent roped are a free for all. There is some totally out of bounds areas where you never see anyone go....why would you when there is so much terrain that the resort is cool with?

 

I understand with the current snow conditions that a great deal of caution is required. Is it fair to say that if an area gets ridden in from early on in the season that it helps snow to compact and bond reducing the chance of avalanche danger paticularly deep slides? Therefore an area that has not been touched with a few meters of snow on it be more likely to slide? I know this is a gross over generalisation but interested in your comments.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Heck, I've had a patroller blow his/her whistle at me at Rusutsu when I was on the unridden fringes of a groomed run on Mt. Isola. I wasn't even in the trees or anything! They were busy hassling some dudes who were O/B beyond the ski-area boundry, so they didn't chase me down and give me "the talk". Halfmachine, perhaps the only reason you haven't been hassled or known anyone who hasn't been hassled at Rusutsu was pure good luck or lack of patrollers. I hope your luck holds. Pretty much everywhere else I've been to in Hokkaido other than Niseko has pretty strict O/B policy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ezorisu:
Heck, I've had a patroller blow his/her whistle at me at Rusutsu when I was on the unridden fringes of a groomed run on Mt. Isola.
lol.gif That is just nuts! Imagine if he did give you "the talk" for riding on the edge of a groomer......freakin hilarious!
Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, i haven't read the intire thread but most of this stuff sounds ok. we go out of bounds it is our problem. people skiing/boarding out of control are liable for their actions. in NA if you cause an accident you can be taken to court.

 

but how about a this one, esspecially considering the recent problems, REAL avi patrol and control work! how about actually learning about avi conditions and learning how to prevent them from happening and thus keep the resort open and safe! the resorts can then post their avi info to the general public so that those who choose to leave the boundaries can do so in an informed way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI. Many resorts in Europe have come to the conclusion that it is better to train and inform people than just forbidding outright.

 

This is translated from the french but basically an example from one resort (Les 2 Alpes):

 

"from the 2nd of January to the 18th of April, Weekly FREE RESPECT sessions. To inform people about the risks associated with OB skiing / boarding. Presentation and teaching sessions about the various equipment sur as beacons, discussions and forums with other riders and professionals. 2 days a week, freeride seesions with high mountain guides and ski school instructors, it is free and open to all."

 

More and more resorts are following this approach.

Link to post
Share on other sites

that's great!

actually the mountains back home in conjunction with the CAA are starting to do the same. nothing to the extent of which you have posted, but free avi info sessions on hill and in the towns. it's a start.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I did get some OB chat at Cortina. I was coming out from the trees and back onto the slope and the patrol was casually waiting there to bust me. \:\)

 

He gave me the talk in Japanese. I did not understand anything but politely listened to him. He was just doing his job.

 

Now if you refer to voluntary talks that you can get from these guys, then I am not so sure. If there is, it will most likely be all in Japanese though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah you can sit down for a talk (all in japanese), costs about 1000 yen, then you get access to ride certain slopes. you get a yellow band.

reading this forum, i guess ive been lucky here in my 3rd season in japan. ive had the odd 'DAME DESU YO' yelled at me, but never been pulled up, let alone my pass being taken. maybe im too fast lol.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Fattwins and Toque, I have not seen your chute, but I am convinced that the policy in a number of resorts I have seem in Europe is that you are free to ride anything you see. Once up, you have the right to try and get down on any route you like, even if that means certain death. In some resorts (Chamonix valley) there are no ropes at all. None. You can ride anything you like. Moreover, there is almost culture where someone is expected to ride the next nastiest line... after all, what else is it there for?

 

So often I see things I want to attempt, am free to do so but have no one to do it with. Mate, you would be so excited over here, you wouldn't be able to sleep (although you would miss the vastly superior Japanese snow conditions).

 

I got this book last year and am tempted to send you a photocopy. You would be buying a good rando set up and on a flight over here in a flash!

 

Back on topic, I think generations of 'freedom culture' in Europe has breed a much more wary and skilful set of 'alpine enthusiasts' than in Japan. The result is that Europe can continue to be liberal and free in their resort management, which in turn breeds more mature off-piste riders. It is a virtuous cycle. Unfortunately it turns in both directions and Japan has it in reverse, both in terms of resort attitude and rider av safety responibility.

 

I do not miss the Japanese patrol and the resorts attitudes to freedom; all the ropes and rules are ridiculous and completely off putting, irrespective of how good the snow is. I Shamefully used to be one of them, but I know plenty of people who have ridden plenty of un-patrolled J powder yet never in their life even performed a beacon check at the trail head (or car park), let alone owned a beacon or shovel etc. That ignorant culture which many forum members are likely guilty of has to change if Japanese patrol are also expected to change in favour of terrain freedom. My GF is not a very good snowboarder at all... but she owns and can use the basic av kit, which is more than most experienced riders, who demand that J resorts loosen up, can claim. I know who I would (and do) rather go off-piste with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i hear your rap, and your rap is strong man. if you intend to go into unpatrolled areas you must have all the gear and skills to use them if incendent arises. but, is it the patrols job to babysit me? that is my choice to go into an unpatroled and potentially dangerous area. and i am accepting the consequences of any problems encountered. i am not asking for the patrol to watch over me in such enviroment. i am just asking that they open up in bounds terrian and keep that safe. if i choose to leave the boundaries of the resort, what can the resort do about it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ezorisu:
Pretty much everywhere else I've been to in Hokkaido other than Niseko has pretty strict O/B policy.
where "else" have you ridden then? Most places I went to were just as relaxed as Niseko wakaranai.gif

posted by daver:
>if i choose to leave the boundaries of the resort, what can the resort do about it?

I agree - all I would like is to be able to take responsibility for my own actions and accept the concequences of them as well and be able to ski outta bounds.

If anybody else reads the J-ski mags there have been more and more outcry from the J-blokes going overseas and coming back complaining about J-resort policy. The mags are becoming more and more progressive which is, at least, a good step in the right direction.
Link to post
Share on other sites

CB thats what ive said all along. The more the locals want it the more they can open it up.

 

Niseko is very low angle si the trees can be opened. the steeper stuff is closed off. There are plenty of resorts in honshu that dont care where you ride. It is a Niseko marketing strategy to say that they are the only ones with no ropes.

 

This season we must use extra caution though people the weather is trying its best to kill us.

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...