daver 0 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 a things regarding the sweatshop issue. i too am opposed to inhumane labour conditions, particularly regarding children. but remember that these are not limited only to developing countries. there are plenty of examples throughout the developed world. now, as far as boycotting sweatshop products, remember that when doing so you are not only boycotting the manufacturer who will not really feel your scorn, but you are certainly affecting the lives of the people in developing areas that otherwise have no infastructure for employment. and thus putting people that simply want to work out of a job. i am not going to begin to argue that the sweatshops and industrial zones exempt from international law are a good thing. but, these places do provide income however small it may be and thus some semblance of power to an otherwise powerless population. my point is this, boycotting products due to their labout policies might seem noble but it is in fact misguided. a more effective approach would be to directly lobby the company. and also contact and pressure your government to both adjust its international trade policies and to apply pressure to developing countries to adjust their labour standards. Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I understand your point and respect it, but giving my money to a company that uses sweatshop labour is essentially giving it my permission to continue. Permission to **** those people over (i'm sure the money made on ski gear could well pay for a decent living wage) as well as **** me over by charging me an obscene amount of money for a procuct made for dollars, if not pennies. I do write the companies and tell them how i feel. I do not feel i am helping these people by supporting a company that would exploit them. Not that all companies do, and i am aware that these people need money. So who do i give my money to? A company that uses US labour, where i know there are minimal labour laws? Or a company that may only give the labourer a bare minimum for existance, and perhaps force overtime, fire those who get pregnant, and provide unsafe working conditions (all the chemicals used in waterproof fabrics may not be so good for the person who makes the fabric). It is not a cut-and-dry situation, i agree. But avoiding these companies (along with telling them WHY they are being avoided) seems way more pro-active in helping change the situation than financially supprting the companies and waiting for change to come via 'proper channels'. As for the money giving sweatshop wprkers a 'sembelance of power', perhaps you are right. I am not a sweatshop worker. But the accounts i have read on sweatshop labour lead me to believe the otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Ok which company doesnt use cheap labour? Link to post Share on other sites
sava 0 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 I honestly think that it's better to buy cheap goods and then give money to a good aid organization (although finding a good aid organization is a problem in and of itself) Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Quote: Originally posted by Fattwins: Ok which company doesnt use cheap labour? Its not cheap labour i have a problem with, its exploitive labour. Unfortunately, who uses which factory is not a set arrangement. Some companies like Arc'Tryx is made in canada (and you pay for it too). MEC is a good one too, using both domestic factories and overseas ones that have been checked to be non-exploitive. I would like to see poor people be able to support themselves in and endevor like making clothes. I would be even happier if their work directly benefitted their own communities instead of providing our over-consumptive and (comparatively, i know. i'm a snowboard instructor) luxurious lifestyles with toys they will never be able to use themselves. But i will get off my soapbox for a bit and let my head shrink down Link to post Share on other sites
sava 0 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Oyuki: I understand your point, but it's very hard to start moving money into those areas in other ways Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 i never said that boycotting sweatshops was a bad idea, i simply stated that is important to understand the reprocusions of such actions. be aware of the effects your choices have on people; not simply on an ideal that we in the west are priveldeged enough to be able to conceive of. in regards to money flow; money flow to corrupt governments is much more of an issue to be concerned of than supporting or not supporting inhumane labour practices. be aware of the political scenerio of the origin to the product. ie, don't by product produced from burma. it supports a facistic and brutal militaristic regime. one that is quickly adopting 'international trade zones' ie, areas in which international law does not abide, to create an economy which support its regime of brutality. otherwise, buy what you like and be happy that you have the opportunity to. economics is the deciding factor in this issue, but only through properly orchestrated economic action can we as a global society see effective results to an issue that we should all be concerned over. random product boycotting although nobel, will have little effect on the global ecomonic power embalance. Link to post Share on other sites
daver 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 and volkl skiis rock. so do leki poles. and superfeet custom liners. and togues knitted by your girlfriend. that is all. Link to post Share on other sites
Oyuki kigan 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Daver, i agree with your last post 100%. Perhaps i was over-zealous when reading your last post. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Well at least the Canadian crew is picking up around here again. Next season we should set a date around early feb for a Can BC trip off the backside of happo. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 That seems like a grand idea Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 ill even tripod flim it from the bottom. Im gonna make a sick video next season. Biglines tateyama, happo, Tsugaike, 47, nozawa and karasawa valley. I will buy a tripod and flim many lines top to bottom. The plan has been set in motion Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 What are you going to mount on this tripod? Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 ill fix my camera or buy one dont you worry about that. One year without a camera is enough. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 It was that bad eh Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I like to flim, it takes time but I love watching the clips in the summer. This year I have 4mins only taken by others only. Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Yes it takes time But if you're willing to sit behind the lense then I'm willing to ski in front of it Link to post Share on other sites
Siem Reeves 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Dont buy a cheap tripod like I did - try and get a better one with meatl bearings etc.. so the movemnet is smooth. I got a platic one and the movemnet was jerky and awful. They are a little expensive but you can find them is second hand shops. Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 You will have to get behind it just a bit yourself. not much but a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Siem Reeves 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 and when your the cameraman you get to ski down first Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Not if you want a pristine powder run shot Then you have to find another way down Don't worry FT. I'm sure we can get you on film as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Siem Reeves 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 ps this is jared I didnt log out and in as i should have Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 YOU ****ER!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
mattlucas 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 While you're logged in as Shimba you should set her up with an Avatar Link to post Share on other sites
Fattwins 0 Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Yeah like her loosing her cookies all drunk or something. I love sking first but I usally say out of the shot I want. In the spring it doesnt really matter. The great thing about japan is that you have all the time in the world. Link to post Share on other sites
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