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Absolutely nuthin'!

 

Well now, I happen to think that moguls are a fine way of ruining a perfectly good slope (and I also think that skiers look like queer bunnies when they go about making them - boink, boink, boink, bum twitch, boink). If resorts are going to let skiers on the slopes, they should at least require them to get to work with shovels at the end of the day to repair the damage they've done.

 

So when are the resorts going to start saying no to skiers? Which resorts will lead the way? How long before the local news has one of those overviews of the Nagano snowboard scene where they say "And at Yakebitayama, they have made it safe for families by banning skis from four fifths of the slopes"?

 

It can't be far off now. Skiers have come to realize that tight white pants look best on the late Freddy Mercury and that snowboard duds are simply better looking. Most sports shops have pushed ski equipment to the side with all the ****y snowscooters, snowbikes and snowwheelchairs. Now it only remains for the resorts to get with program.

 

How long, oh my people?

 

(Gosh, I hope this doesn't pull anyone's chain...)

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hey now....

 

calm down there ocean11....

mogul skiing is a skill, just like

boarding in a pipe...which i might

remind you ban skiers (meaning boarder

only terrain parks) in many a resort

(at least in the us...)

 

i have no problems with resorts dedicating more and more space for terrain parks, rail

slides, and other "boarder friendly" ammenities, so don't complain about our precious mogul fields...

 

and like yillow says...why can't we just

get along...

 

danz the skier

 

------------------

pray for snow

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Well, as for being bitter, it'd be a mistake to think that rhetorical heat was anything more. But I suppose my antipathy to the whole ski style and gear did keep me away from winter sports for longer than necessary.

 

And in practice, we do get along, but venting in a forum like this doesn't result in broken bones now, does it?

 

I think that as some resorts do ban snowboarders completely (and get more skiers on account of that), it'd only be fair if some popular boarding resorts banned skiers. My point was, how long do you think it'll be before the sense of this begins to strike the resort owners?

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ocean11...

 

if your point is the stupidity

of resorts that don't allow 50%

of potential customers to spend their

money there, than I agree....

 

but bashing skiing because of fashion????

please...you can do better than that ocean11...I hope that is not what brings

you to the mtn...

 

and the mogul bit...just accept it...

it will never go away...

 

danz

 

 

------------------

pray for snow

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danz,

 

I think it's OK for places to say no this or no that, and compete in the marketplace on the basis of their discrimination. I read somewhere that those places that have recently banned snowboarders have noticed an upturn in the_overall_number of customers - that means skiers. Far from losing 50% of their customers, they've increased the number of customers. I think the same would apply for resorts that banned skiers.

 

Certainly I'd be delighted not to have ride moguls, avoid people skiing uphill, snowploughing right across the slope, and resting on their stocks in the middle of the slopes like so many cows (OK, some snowboarders sit around on the gelende like apes too). I'd also be glad not see any of those technicolour vomit outfits with the fur trim and the Snoopy decals.

 

Now fashion has never drawn me to anything, but it has turned me off a number of things. I was never interested in skiing, primarily because it looked so awkward with those sticks and straps and all that boink boink boink and pigeon toe business. But the ghastly togs that skiers have always chosen to do their thing in also made me wonder just what sort of people they could be.

 

As you may have detected, this is all at a fairly visceral level for me. It's not personal - I have friends who ski - but the whole skiing thing just doesn't seem to make any sense. I don't see any point in pretending to be ecumenical about it, just as many skiers clearly don't either.

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(My view on the offtopic drift)

 

I know there are geniune ski bums who have great attitudes and enjoy the sport for what it is. However, I do think skiing has a major image problem that is a turnoff for people like the Ocean and myself.

 

When I was back in the UK (before snowboarding went mainstream), I always felt like skiing was something that only rich, snobby people and wannabee rich, snobby people did. You know, people like Prince bloody Charles and his nobby cronies. The school I attended had organised ski trips, but it was only the kids that got everything (flash bikes, table tennis tables, cars on their 17th b'day etc.) from Daddy that ever went on them. It never struck me as an accessible sport at all. The message was never "Come on my son, have a go !"

 

After coming to Japan, the proximity of the mountains and the chance to earn my own money helped a lot, and I ended up becoming a skier. However, my overall impression of the sport (i.e., prim, elitist) hardly changed. I recall having a lot of empathy with a comment in an old version of the Lonely Planet guide to Japan where the writer says that the only time he couldn't get a ride when hitching in Japan was when he was passed by a long succession of skiers' cars. Not wanting a backpacking toerag in the car kind of epitomised what I felt was the attitude behind skiing. Thanks to skiwear, the general appearance of skiers (rather like golfers) only reinforced the prim and elitist image of the sport.

 

If anything, the fashion-business aspect is probably bigger now with boarding than it ever was with skiing, only now it's a skate-inspired street look. Boarding equipment is also no cheaper than skiing equipment, so thanks to boarding winter sports are no more financially accessible than they've ever been. However, snowboarding (esp. freestyle not alpine snowboarding) does not come across as an elitist sport at all. It feels like a fun thing anyone can try. Maybe it's because snowboarding has stronger links with surfing and skateboarding than with skiing, or maybe it's because the sport comes out of the USA of today and not the hyper class-ridden Europe of old. I don't know. However, it's certainly not just because snowboarding is a new sport. Other new sports, such as windsurfing, strike me as far more elitist and inaccessible.

 

To use a comparison, the way I see it skiing is like wine and boarding is like beer. Both are great, and there's no reason why you can't enjoy both. However, wine drinking, especially in countries where it is not native, is traditionally surrounded by so much snobbery and pretension as to be a turn-off for many people. Beer tends to be seen as loutish by the wine-drinkers, but does not carry airs and graces, making it available a larger group, something that should not be underestimated. Like the Ocean, I'm sure some of the people boarding now would never have been skiers.

 

As for moguls, I don't mind parts of certain courses having them and even being roped off special, but it is a bit of a pain when they're on every slope with a decent gradient. People skiing moguls are aiming at going at in a straight line, so there's no need for them to be all across the hill. I've seen many kickers built by boarders themselves get flattened by the patrol soon after they're built. For ordinary punters, it's far easier to find a way around a kicker than a field of moguls.

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NoFakie, you put it so well. I wanted to mention the English skool ski-trip scene too, but had to run for my train instead. That was indeed a real turn-off.

 

I think snowboarding and skiing are quite incompatible at some level. Skiing was originally a practical activity whereas snowboarding is pure sport. You wouldn't want to go hunting with a snowboard, whereas it's feasible with skis. You can actually get over pretty much the whole mountain with skis but not with a snowboard. You can enjoy moguls on skis (boink boink...sorry) but not on a snowboard. And you can stand around wherever you happen to stop on skis and gaze bovinely up the slope while you rest on your stocks, whereas a snowboard will tend to start sliding down the hill as it was designed to.

 

These reasons make it desirable to separate them, or at least make separation an option for those who would prefer it. You don't hold figure skating events at the same time as an ice hockey game, although both sports are held on ice - the figure skaters find the goals to be an obstacle and a hazard, and they don't like getting hit with the sticks.

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well this is very interesting....

 

alright, NoFakie, I actually agree with alot of what you said, but these aspects, and the fashion stuff too, are relics of the past...that elitist feel you talk about is so very 80's...admittingly, "new school" skiing has learned much from snowboarding, both fashion and attitude...

sure, if you go to Aspen you will still find women in one-piece silver lined furr ski-outfits, but that is not what its about...

 

I think fundamently skiing and snowboarding are similiar, and there is no need to seperate the 2...

 

skiing is a snow riding sport...with many

disciplines to master...alright...i'm rambling now...

 

cheers

danz

 

 

 

 

------------------

pray for snow

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Snow bunny type chicks with long swishy hair look cool going down moguls (boink boink boink....). I also love that side to side wiggle jump thing the pro mogul chicks do off the jump thats halfway down the course (wiggle wiggle...) Yeah mogul chicks

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  • 2 weeks later...

You people dissin' moguls are obviously bitter boardin' dudes.

 

Moguls rule. The ultimate test of....the power of your knees. What an amazing feeling when you get to the bottom of a long mogul run in style.

 

Hakkai san rules!

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Maybe you guys won't believe it, but as Mogski can attest I spend most of the time on my snowboard in the moguls...I love the moguls. And I hate them...

 

I never mastered them in my ski days and then I got bored with skiing in general. That was years ago. I took up boarding in 1993 and after all these years I realize I am just a skier on a snowboard after all.

 

If there were more steep and exciting slopes and long powder runs and glades here in Japan, then I probably wouldn't spend much time on the moguls after all...but that is what I have come to here.

 

I never got into that pipe and park stuff. I gave the pipe a try at the end of last season and it was mildly amusing. Now I have full body armor and I will venture back into it this season.

 

But mostly I will be in the moguls...for lack of anything more stimulating to do.

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Actually, snobee, what's inane is poking your ugly head into somebody's discussion and criticizing, without grace or humour. Why not save yourself the effort of posting until you actually have something to add?

 

If you hadn't noticed, skiers and snowboarders have contributed some interesting and heartfelt thoughts on this subject, and this issue is being 'debated' by those_ski_resorts_that have chosen to exclude snowboarders.

 

Have yourself a very_significant_day.

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Lets face it, nowadays snowboarding clothes are more a 'fashion' than ski wear. Most skiers I see are wearing outdated gear (from the eighties?) just because they have it, whereas boarders are more often in matching drab bought for their one or two weekends a year.

As for moguls, they improved my telemarking no end, and I used to like boarding them until I got a big powder board. Only complaint, do they really have to cover a whole slope?

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Always something a little suss when the attacks become personal, BUT I won't dwell on that. When this thread began it was on the "value" of moguls. It quickly turned into the well thrashed, often biased (by both sides) boarders vs skiers "debate". Perhaps my initial comment calling such a discussion inane was written in haste, but after the "skiers are like wine drinkers" and "boarders are like beer drinkers" comments and the tale of woe concerning the rich kids that always went on skool ski trips, I thought this is s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g it. It's 2002 and the attitudes we carry re. our snow pursuits affect the general feel of the whole scene. As a surfer & skateboarder of the 70's & 80's I grew with the Them & Us mentality. Long boarders vs short boarders vs knee boarders vs mat riders vs boogie boarders vs townies vs coasters.......! This was not a healthy part of surfing. I see and sense a somewhat similar mood growing and it's probably not good enough to say"Oh, my best friend is a skier" as if that justifies the attitude. More constructively we (as one snow sport community) should be critical of individuals bad attitudes and manners on the slopes, irregardless of their pursuit. A ****er is a ****er whether boarding or skiing or sledding or snow shoe shuffling. The Them & Us debate only fuels negativity and angst. The mountain belongs to all who can show some creative responsibility and respect for others - not to which tribe you belong to or colors you flash.

Imagine all the people, living for........!

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I know what you're saying Snobee and I do kind of agree but:

 

= this is a forum, reading other opinions is fun, even if they are completely biased and we think they are idiots;

 

= I think some of the comments put here are written with a bit of light humor thinking behind them. Don't take it too seriously!

 

= Anyone with intelligence will not be swayed or fuelled with hatred on reading these posts - more likely to chuckle to themselves. It's only the "writers" who are getting worked up!

 

Let's enjoying!

Haha!

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..JUST signed up. Great site.

..in response to Ocean11's original query, an awesome run down a difficult mogul run is a rush, duuuude wink.gif boarders have their own rushes, am i not right?..when you're in the zone and everything clicks and you've had a particularly satisfying run gliding thru say a knarly bump run, THAT's part of what makes skiing what it is, something I'm sure other skiers can relate to...and as well, I'm sure, in a different way, what makes certain aspects of boarding such a rush for boarders.

 

SKIING rules btw, but I HAVE tried boarding ONCE..w/in a couple of hrs was able to do 360s - yeehaw! (on the snow, not in air) just haven't had any further inclination to pursue boarding is all.

 

Peace and happy trails to all.

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snobee, that's more like it! Some substance there.

 

Actually, there's bias and discrimination against snowboarders, hence this discussion. Some ski places place effective fines on snowboarders, some have never let them in, and some have recently stopped letting them in. And the news reports say that it is for the 'safety of families' wooo-o-o Snowboarder Eats Baby.

 

Well the reality of it is this - I've never run into a skier, even as a rank beginner, but plenty of skiers, flash w@nkers who ought to know better, have run into me (they always come off worse too, knees twisting in all sorts of sick ways - snowboading is safer).

 

So it's not wrong to discuss the issue from the other point of view, and it's not my responsibility to 'discipline' other snowboarders who behave like tw@ts, although I might choose to yell at them from time to time (like those kids who walk about on narrow tracks holding their boards tucked crossways behind their backs like they saw in a magazine - excuse me, might I just slip by?!)

 

And as 45TIMO so sagely points out, this is a discussion board.

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For most boarders moguls are no good. Nor are half pipes very good for skiers. Seeing as I board and I've gotten into the half pipe thing, neither of them do me any good. I don understand that they are good for certain people and I am glad that they are there for them. The greater problem for moguls is that at some resorts that take up so many of the would-be-great runs, lessening the choices for (most of) us boarders.

 

Skiing as long an an elitist image to the general public. That is simply a fact. Like with golf, it is an image nothing says it is true for all people. I've had a lot of friends who suck but like golf and would sneek onto golf courses for the fun of playing the game, not to be elitist. Its just an image. As for which is better, for each his own. Who really cares what other people do? The only ski-snowboard specific annoyance is with my own kind. We have to sit at the top and strap on our gear, often making a slightly difficult path to the begining of the run. But after 2 seconds its over and I don't really care. Its the people lingering in the midle of the run that must do and they are of both genres.

 

Back to moguls. As I feel that its good for poeple to have the toys that they want, I've always thought little of the baorders I see fighting a losing battle in the mogul fields (ignoring the fact that we sometimes run upon them accidentaly and have no choice). I don't like moguls and my boarding on them makes it less nice for the skiers who do want them. So, Badmigraine, thanks for enlighting me in that some boarders do enjoy them. If you like them, its fine do play on them. I've just thought that these other people wanted to 'challenge' themselves even though in the end I 'knew' that it was not nice, therebye ruining for the skiers.

 

I don't think any resort will ban skiers, unless its simply a boarding park. Nor do I think boarders would flock to a board-only resort. I hope that boarders are not so elitist. Other than fashion hurting your eyes, if you don't talk to snobs how do they hurt you?

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