Backcountry - "legal" or frowned on - what's the real deal?

[backbum 0]

Backcountry seems to be popular with a number of sjg readers, myself included, but what really is the policy of resorts here in Japan. This is my first season and am not really sure what the policy is....

 

Any help would be awesome. cheerz

[Ocean11 0]

I can't really answer that with much authority but I do have something to say about it.

 

The 'policy' seems to be that you shouldn't do it, you're warned not to do it, and if you do insist on being a bad person and doing it, then whatever happens to you is amply deserved. When you disappear, a coalition of the ski patrol, the police and whatever mates you have mounts a rescue operation that starts, oh, about 24 hrs after you were last seen.

 

On Nagano local television the other day, they reported on a Japanese couple who went off piste at one of the Hakuba resorts and spent the night stuck in deep snow. They called the police by mobile phone and got rescued the next day. The coverage was very interesting. Cub reporter went around interviewing ski patrols at the resort in question and a few others, as well as a few boarders. The young boarders all said, yes, we like powder snow, it feels good and we want to ride it whenever we can. The ski patrol, forty-something skiers, all said, no, you shouldn't do it, it's dangerous and leads to things like this, but lots of people seem to want to do it, irrespective of the consequences.

 

Now what cub reporter didn't then do was go and interview the resort management and ask 'Why don't you respond to the clear wish of your customers for the chance to ride powder? Why don't you make it safe for them to do this?' It can't be that difficult to provide safe, marked powder runs. If this were done, then people might actually respect boundaries and not get lost. And more people might take up a sport that looks to be in drastic decline.

I talk to my Japanese colleagues who board, most only occasionally but who have been doing it for 4 years or more, and they don't seem that keen in on it anymore. I ask if they ride off piste and they chuckle and say, oh no, wouldn't do that, that's not allowed, that's dangerous, I might get hurt or disappear. If these people, with no kids and with still quite a bit of disposable income could do something new like learning what's really another style of riding, in another environment, more people might start going off to the resorts on the weekends again. Of course, resorts might need a good smack in the head to get them thinking they're providing a SERVICE, and they might need to replace the crusty old ski-patrol with young snowboard guides. And they might save some money from grooming the hell out of all their best runs. It would be rather nice, as long as they stayed out of MY powder.

[Ocean11 0]

And while I'm ranting, I note that many of the TV ads for the resorts show people shussshing through the powder in places unrecognizable as standard groomed runs. Now THAT'S fraudulent advertising.

[Guest]

I have heard of some people getting their tickets taken off them if they go off course and the resort being pretty strict

[Ocean11 0]

Try taking MY ticket off me

[miteyak 0]

Yep, I know a guy who lost his season lift ticket out of bounds on the first day. Depends where you are. As for this backcountry conversation, I presume we're talking 'off piste'. Backcountry really refers to non-lift access areas, and therefore has no real restrictions.

[Ocean11 0]

There are some places, Ontake for e.g., where you can put snowshoes in a rucksack and climb up the mountain behind the resort then board back down. But you're on your own if you f**k up.

 

Also, be aware that mobile phone batteries don't work too well in the cold - you may have to massage them to get any life out of them, and it may even get too cold for that. For real backcountry rather than just doing a little rope ducking, you need to make and register plans with people you trust. (Never done it meself, but it's just common sense...)

 

[This message has been edited by Ocean11 (edited 16 January 2002).]

[peaker 0]

Where do you draw the line between "real backcountry" and

a little "rope ducking"?

You have to be prepared for real backcountry but anyone can duck the rope right?

I mean they only put up ropes to stop you from having fun . Just ask any expert rope ducker.

Rope ducker: What happens if they see me?

vs

real backcountry rider: What if they dont see me, how will I react to unexpected injury or event.

 

I bet there are a lot more problems with rope ducking.

If you really dont expect the ski patrol to come get you when you stuff up then act like it.

If people had more respect for their ass than their pass the ski patrol would probably be a little more relaxed.

[ivo 0]

hey peaker, you got the point!!!

[Ocean11 0]

Just read the 'Day in the Life of a Powder Freak' fictional piece. Hmmmmmm, shovels eh? I always like to have a shovel with me, whatever the occasion. And having a bit of an archaeological dig before the fun starts surely provides a very good warm up.

 

'Hey look Cindi, this layer is fluffy and soft, but the one above it is quite compacted with a shear factor of six, I'd say.'

 

--------

 

Would you hold the rope up for me, there's a good chap?

[hutch 0]

It seems this topic keeps circulating and circulating....about the patrol, Japanese mgmt, backcountry and off-piste.

 

It just comes down to being prepared and educated.... until Japanese resorts provide powder runs in bounds, educated patrol (just look at how few patrol have qualifications at Hirafu)....and a decent backcountry permit system....then any off-piste we do might as well be taken as backcountry....so get educated and be prepared with all the gear.....rope ducking still can have serious consequences. Take Hakkoda for example.......if you don't know the mountain, drop too far then you can get screwed. Search and rescue pulled out the choppers and Japanese army looking for two guys from Tokyo that disappeared only after 4 days! They were found after 7 days.... they had ALL the gear so were alive....severe frostbite but alive.

Take a backcountry awareness course....Dave Enright's comes well recommended: http://www.coachjpn.com

[Guest]

Seems to me that it is not exactly "legal", but depending on the resort and their attitude, they may or may not enforce any rules.

 

1 thing I would like to point out though is the fact that some resorts say "no" for SAFETY reasons, not just because they are tight arsed conservatives.

[Ocean11 0]

sr, I'd agree with that, but the difficulty is telling which is which.

[NoFakie 45]

It's hard to expect a clear message from the resorts if by saying yes to offpiste they lay themselves liable for the behaviour of everyone that goes in those areas, irresponsible clowns and beginners-who've-heard-its-wicked included.

 

If resorts are increasingly having to pay up for collisions on groomed courses that aren't their fault, there's little incentive for them to open up tree runs or other more difficult terrain. Customers can't have it both ways.

 

Controlled access to offpiste area is one solution, but that would take a massive retraining of patrol staff and still requires policing to ensure that the wrong people aren't going in there. You've got to remember that even when resorts are busy, at most places you can still escape the crowds by going down the most difficult run. This does not suggest that there is a big demand for more difficult terrain. If you want plus-alpha, why not get the gear and do a course like the man says.

[Ocean11 0]

Yeah, but we're not necessarily talking really difficult here. Sure, it may be very unpleasant making your way 20 yards out of shoulder deep powder, but apart from steamed up goggles (well, and maybe throwing a fatal hearty for the unfit), it's not nescessarily dangerous.

 

There are tree runs at the top of Nozawa that are officially out of bounds 'because of the trees', but they're not dangerous at all. It's that kind of specious warning that bothers me, a bit like the little boy who cried wolf. People who have ignored meaningless signs like that might easily ignore a similar bland sign posted in front of a slope with a big crack in it.

 

I agree that anyone who clearly goes off the boundaries of the resort needs to be prepared, and should consider themselves responsible for themselves, but within the resort itself, there needs to be greater recognition of what people want to do. And judging by the tracks to be found in odd places, quite a few people have developed a taste for deep powder between the trees. Resorts could respond by posting more credible information on the level of risk.

[badmigraine 0]

Who found the Tail?

"I," said Pooh,

"At a quarter to two

(Only it was quarter to eleven really),

I found the Tail!"

 

 

My contribution to this thread is a set of turns made directly under the longest lift at Kandatsu yesterday around four-thirty in the afternoon...

 

The only feedback received from the lift above was a single "ganbare!", immediately after which I did an endo but came right-side up and still making those nice powder turns like I had planned the whole tumble.

 

Mogski, who orchestrated the entire escapade and was not to be outdone, gave a demonstration of "tachi-iri-kinshi" tree-skiing that stirred the assorted denizens of the mountain forests from their hibernatory slumber. His judicious choice of line through the timbered glades, aided in no small part by his brand-new kit of Salomon Pocket Rockets and lime-green boots, caused more than one badger and even a recalcitrant bear to sit up and clap their paws in admiration, whereupon they retired to their caves and we to ours.

 

The only thing that could have improved the experience in some small measure would have been my disgusting brown vintage 1982 one-piece snowmobile suit with wide flapping cream-colored collar and bunched-elastic waistband with fake leather clasp belt.

 

In retrospect, I cannot say that I encourage this sort of thing. If I did, there would be less untouched powder for me...